Moving from UC LCWRA to ESA Contibutory (new style ESA)

Largs

Hi.  Wondering if someone could clarify for me, I have had great help from this forum recently.

Inheritance means I will shortly not qualify for the Universal Credit.  I intend claiming ESA Cont on the day I notify UC of my change in circumstances.  I asked Citizens Advice at their central office and I will share the reply I got.....

"I have consulted my sources regarding your query and can provide the following information.  Firstly; in order to qualify for new style ESA you must meet the National Insurance conditions for 2 tax years.  In 2023 the tax years will be 2020 - 21 & 2021 - 22.  You can check your National Insurance record on GOV.UK. It will say if you have a 'full year' of contributions, and if this comes from employment, self-employment or National Insurance credits: https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record. If you do make a claim for new style ESA when you are still claiming UC, then this will have to be reported as a change of circumstances.  This is because your ESA payment will be considered when determining the amount of UC paid out to you.  If you have an online account, tell the DWP in the 'Report a change' section. You can also call the Universal Credit helpline, but this is likely to take longer as you might have to wait for someone to answer. If you don’t have an online account, you should call the helpline.  Finally, most people who make a claim for new style ESA will require a medical assessment.  However, at the moment, the DWP will try to do the assessment by looking at your medical evidence and talking to you over the phone or by video call. It’s important to send your medical evidence as soon as possible.  If the DWP can’t assess you over the phone or by video call, they’ll invite you to a face-to-face medical assessment."

Really my question is, I am no longer required to send sick notes as last month it was decided I had LCWRA - I think this is the equivilent of ESA Support Group.  Does anyone know if this will transfer to ESA, in that I will be placed in Support Group without going through the process of sick notes and another medical.  I was going to ask UC for a copy of my medical report and include this with form ESA50 if I am sent that.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

HillStreetBlues

As it's not a transfer, then I expect CAB is correct, but not sure so others might know.
When is the inheritance due? As from the  7th Jan 2024 the tax years move to 21-22 & 22-23,  so checking you know this.

Largs

HillStreetBlues said:

As it's not a transfer, then I expect CAB is correct, but not sure so others might know.
When is the inheritance due? As from the  7th Jan 2024 the tax years move to 21-22 & 22-23,  so checking you know this.

Hi.  It is due later this month (approximately)  I think I will be fine whatever tax years they use.  Entitledto website says the rules get relaxed if you were in receipt of Carers Allowance which I was for a few years.  To be honest if I dont get benefit and only quality for credits I suppose that would be fine.  Its just I have worked since I was 14 - I will be 50 in January and have never claimed Social Security before my dads poor health.  I just want to make sure I get what I am entitled to.  

Yamor

If you are entitled to UC and it has previously been determined that you have LCWRA, then you should be treated for ESA purposes as having LCWRA, and therefore put in the support group, although you would still have the 13-week wait for the support component to be paid.

Largs

Hi @Yamor many thanks for this information.  You have made my night! 

Jyana

Largs said:

HillStreetBlues said:

As it's not a transfer, then I expect CAB is correct, but not sure so others might know.
When is the inheritance due? As from the  7th Jan 2024 the tax years move to 21-22 & 22-23,  so checking you know this.

Hi.  It is due later this month (approximately)  I think I will be fine whatever tax years they use.  Entitledto website says the rules get relaxed if you were in receipt of Carers Allowance which I was for a few years.  To be honest if I dont get benefit and only quality for credits I suppose that would be fine.  Its just I have worked since I was 14 - I will be 50 in January and have never claimed Social Security before my dads poor health.  I just want to make sure I get what I am entitled to.  

I believe the rule is that as long as you have been entitled to CA in either of the previous two tax years, then they will use any tax year preceding the benefit start date rather than just the previous two years to satisfy the "minimum of 26 weeks of NI Contributions through employment or self-employment" section.

Might be best if someone can confirm though?

Largs

Hi there Jyana, this is the bit from Entitled to I read....

"The rules are complex and there are situations where the first contribution condition can be relaxed for certain groups of ESA claimants meaning that these specific groups can use National Insurance contributions paid in any tax year to satisfy the first contribution condition. This could apply to you if you were entitled to Carer's Allowance in the last complete tax year immediately before the benefit year in which your Limited Capability for Work began"

I worked right up until I got Carers Allowance. so fingers crossed.

Spoonie_Turtle

Largs said:

Hi there Jyana, this is the bit from Entitled to I read....

"The rules are complex and there are situations where the first contribution condition can be relaxed for certain groups of ESA claimants meaning that these specific groups can use National Insurance contributions paid in any tax year to satisfy the first contribution condition. This could apply to you if you were entitled to Carer's Allowance in the last complete tax year immediately before the benefit year in which your Limited Capability for Work began"

I worked right up until I got Carers Allowance. so fingers crossed.

The key part is whether you were receiving Carers Allowance soon enough before your LCWRA for the relaxation to apply to you.

Jyana

Ahh, it looks like there has been some change to the rule then, as they state that CA must have been payable in the previous tax year only rather than either of the two, which I'm pretty sure it used to be at least 5 years ago. (Or maybe it's this week's insomnia finally catching up with me!)

That being the case, having CA up until you claimed UC, rather claiming it right after you had to stop work, would be the important bit. Minor pedantry aside, it does look as though you should be fine. Hope it all goes well for you.

Largs

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Largs said:

Hi there Jyana, this is the bit from Entitled to I read....

"The rules are complex and there are situations where the first contribution condition can be relaxed for certain groups of ESA claimants meaning that these specific groups can use National Insurance contributions paid in any tax year to satisfy the first contribution condition. This could apply to you if you were entitled to Carer's Allowance in the last complete tax year immediately before the benefit year in which your Limited Capability for Work began"

I worked right up until I got Carers Allowance. so fingers crossed.

The key part is whether you were receiving Carers Allowance soon enough before your LCWRA for the relaxation to apply to you.

Hi Spoonie Turtle.  I got Carers until my dad passed away 27 May.  It ran on for 8 weeks and then my UC dropped to just standard allowance.  I felt I could not work or look for work so got sick notes from July and late September/early October time I was placed in LCWRA so think I should be fine.  The DWP helpline dont seem to be able to advise you of too much, I am just grateful to people here helping.  I don't think you realise the good you do.

xxxxxxxx

Largs said:

Hi Spoonie Turtle.  I got Carers until my dad passed away 27 May.  It ran on for 8 weeks and then my UC dropped to just standard allowance.  I felt I could not work or look for work so got sick notes from July and late September/early October time I was placed in LCWRA so think I should be fine.  The DWP helpline dont seem to be able to advise you of too much, I am just grateful to people here helping.  I don't think you realise the good you do.

Hi, if that is, as I assume, CA paid you to May 2023, that is half of the equation, the next questions are:
When did your CA start?
When did you finish working full time and had you been working full time for a good number of years prior to your employment finish date?

The rule for ESA SG coming from UC is that the UC must be a live claim which includes LCWRA.
ESA Regs 2013 Reg 31(1)(d)

Your inheritance will close UC from the start of the AP in which you receive the money.  Therefore, if you delay claiming ESA NS until you notify UC, you could complicate matters as your UC will already be closed. 
I suggest you claim ESA NS now backdated 3 months. 
Theoretically you should not need fit notes for ESA, but you should have the fit notes already on hand, as you were, until recently, giving them to UC. 
I suggest you simply give all your fit notes to ESA covering the 3 month back-dating period. and ask your doctor for a new one from the date the last one expired.

Even though the CA can give you relaxation of the 1st condition... to get ESA NS you will have to satisfy the 2nd condition.  Your time spent on UC will not help you to get the 2nd condition.  Your time spent on CA will help you to get the 2nd condition, and prior to CA, your earnings will help to get the 2nd condition.

While we are at it ...:
When did your UC start? 
When did your dad's PIP Daily Living (or attendance allowance) start?
When did UC pay Carer's Element(CE) from? and did they pay any backdating of CE?
What date on UC, did you first declare a health condition affecting your ability to work? 
What date did UC award LCWRA from? (you will have to ask UC to tell you).

I see from your previous comments you get paid UC on the 12th, and you first reported illness on the 14th July, they should have awarded LCWRA from 14th July and paid lcwra from the AP which starts in November, which you receive on the 12th December.

ESA should also send you for a new medical (but they might forget or not know they should).