PokerStars refusing refund, as are PayPal

iamrperry

This may be the wrong thread, but I couldn’t find a more appropriate place to put this:

I recently signed up to PokerStars having played a lot of free money tournaments previously on another app. When signing up there was no mention of a requirement for personal financial information, something I would have refused, just a “sign up with your email” message. I was then asked to make a deposit, which I tried to do via my credit card. Declined my Amex, tried the Mastercard, declined that as well. The other option was to pay via PayPal, which i did, to the sum of £50.

as soon as this money was received, my account was immediately shut down and a message sent saying that I needed to provide further information: bank statements, passport, driving licence etc.

i do not have a passport, nor a driving licence. I said this, and asked for them to refund the money, which they refused to do, citing that they required ID that I had told them I did not have. 

I then had a further exchange with PayPal who said they couldn’t as it was not in their terms. 

I am now utterly confused as to how I get my money back, or who to complain to.

I am in the fortunate position that £50 is not going to have a massive impact on me, but I can imagine for some it would. And this set up is absolutely to catch capital from the most vulnerable people in society.

anyway, any support would be appreciated

Perry

born_again

iamrperry said:

This may be the wrong thread, but I couldn’t find a more appropriate place to put this:

I recently signed up to PokerStars having played a lot of free money tournaments previously on another app. When signing up there was no mention of a requirement for personal financial information, something I would have refused, just a “sign up with your email” message. I was then asked to make a deposit, which I tried to do via my credit card. Declined my Amex, tried the Mastercard, declined that as well. The other option was to pay via PayPal, which i did, to the sum of £50.

as soon as this money was received, my account was immediately shut down and a message sent saying that I needed to provide further information: bank statements, passport, driving licence etc.

i do not have a passport, nor a driving licence. I said this, and asked for them to refund the money, which they refused to do, citing that they required ID that I had told them I did not have. 

I then had a further exchange with PayPal who said they couldn’t as it was not in their terms. 

I am now utterly confused as to how I get my money back, or who to complain to.

I am in the fortunate position that £50 is not going to have a massive impact on me, but I can imagine for some it would. And this set up is absolutely to catch capital from the most vulnerable people in society.

anyway, any support would be appreciated

Perry

Gambling payments on Credit Cards were stopped in April 2020.

Sadly you will need to provide the info they require as it part of their process.

la531983

By attempting to deposit on not one, but TWO cards that have been banned for over three years, and then using a third party site rather than just using a debit card, you would have thrown up every red flag in their algorithm.

iamrperry

la531983 said:

By attempting to deposit on not one, but TWO cards that have been banned for over three years, and then using a third party site rather than just using a debit card, you would have thrown up every red flag in their algorithm.

That’s great to know.

What i’m asking is whether it’s legal for them to hold money that has been requested to be returned by the payee, due to them changing their acceptance process after the fact. 

iamrperry

born_again said:

iamrperry said:

This may be the wrong thread, but I couldn’t find a more appropriate place to put this:

I recently signed up to PokerStars having played a lot of free money tournaments previously on another app. When signing up there was no mention of a requirement for personal financial information, something I would have refused, just a “sign up with your email” message. I was then asked to make a deposit, which I tried to do via my credit card. Declined my Amex, tried the Mastercard, declined that as well. The other option was to pay via PayPal, which i did, to the sum of £50.

as soon as this money was received, my account was immediately shut down and a message sent saying that I needed to provide further information: bank statements, passport, driving licence etc.

i do not have a passport, nor a driving licence. I said this, and asked for them to refund the money, which they refused to do, citing that they required ID that I had told them I did not have. 

I then had a further exchange with PayPal who said they couldn’t as it was not in their terms. 

I am now utterly confused as to how I get my money back, or who to complain to.

I am in the fortunate position that £50 is not going to have a massive impact on me, but I can imagine for some it would. And this set up is absolutely to catch capital from the most vulnerable people in society.

anyway, any support would be appreciated

Perry

Gambling payments on Credit Cards were stopped in April 2020.

Sadly you will need to provide the info they require as it part of their process.

Interesting. I don’t remember seeing anywhere on their payments system about that being the case. I assume they bury it in the lengthy T&Cs.

As stated, I don’t have the info they have since requested. This was highlighted to them, and they just shrugged their shoulders “not our issue”. But they were happy to take the money, just not give it back.

CliveOfIndia

iamrperry said:

born_again said:

Gambling payments on Credit Cards were stopped in April 2020.

Interesting. I don’t remember seeing anywhere on their payments system about that being the case. I assume they bury it in the lengthy T&Cs.

It's not specifically their T&Cs, it's "the law of the land", and applies to all UK credit cards: https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/news/article/gambling-on-credit-cards-to-be-banned-from-april-2020

Since it's UK law, I would suspect they don't need to specifically reference it in their T&Cs.

Kim_13

Provide them a bank statement (redacted if you prefer, but showing the PayPal payment to them if you can.) It proves you are who you say you are every bit as much as a passport or driving licence, assuming they would not then ask the customer for a selfie. 

Banks can refuse custom if you don’t have photo ID if they wish, but at least they do this before taking your money. 

iamrperry

Kim_13 said:

Provide them a bank statement (redacted if you prefer, but showing the PayPal payment to them if you can.) It proves you are who you say you are every bit as much as a passport or driving licence, assuming they would not then ask the customer for a selfie. 

Banks can refuse custom if you don’t have photo ID if they wish, but at least they do this before taking your money. 

This is my point. The asking for ID is understandable, it’s the fact they’ve done it AFTER taking funds, and then refusing to return it without me then providing extra information.

seems like an absolute con.

Kim_13

If you haven’t yet provided what you do have (a bank statement) it’s not surprising that they would smell a rat. It seems evasive if you don’t provide anything at all, and would look to them as though you have something to hide. If after that they still won’t budge, try anything you do have with a photo on (bus pass, blue badge if you have one or voter authority certificate.)

Raise the issue with your MP if you still can’t get access to your money having done this - their process should be prominently displayed, and it is not impossible to fulfil the requirements of the legislation without photo ID. Regulation has tightened and this never should have been done without a National ID card being in place. The fact is that a provisional driving licence is easier and cheaper than a passport, both to obtain and to replace should it be stolen, lost or damaged. Therefore those that have a condition that means they are unable to hold a driving licence through no fault of their own are at a disadvantage compared to those who don’t drive but who can meet the medical standards to do so.

Vectis

I think you'll struggle to get a refund without providing any ID. It's all to do with money laundering, and most bookies and casinos are really tight on it now. I doubt if they'll simply refund the money without anything.

It's no help to you now, but it should have been done as part of the signup process.

As others have said, you'll have to try offering them other ID such as bank statements, utility bills in your name, anything from HMRC, those sorts of things.

I've been through all this when I used to do matched betting and casino offers and it's quite rigorous sometimes - copies of bank cards with some of the numbers blanked out, selfies, passports, front and back of drivers licence etc etc. As I said, no use to you now, but you get used to it and when I signed up to a new site I'd go to their verification page and submit the documents even before they ask.

There may be a verification page on their website, some have it, others do it all by email. I seem to remember some sites accepting utility bills (gas, water etc but not mobile phone bills). Try having a look there and see if it'll accept any alternatives.