Money Moral Dilemma: Should I refuse to pay the service charge when eating out?

Medlaaa

Let’s be honest, if you open a food business in London then you expect to pay London charges. Factor in your costs in the displayed prices and stop this sneaky, slimey and underhand practice. Same goes for staff pay, like any other industry, pay them what they’re worth to you and stop guilt-tripping customers to save your profits. I personally will not go to places that use these dishonest tactics.

Kim_13

The only logic I can see for tips (compared to the other minimum wage roles that have been mentioned that get minimum wage and that’s it would be that the waiter/waitress is probably being charged more for their car insurance than the others out of the same pay packet, leaving them net worse off.) But I would agree with those that say that the restaurant is not concerned with the diner’s circumstances (expensive treat vs can afford to eat out whenever they like without a problem) and it works both ways. I appreciate that those aren’t easily provable but I’ve never seen an OAP or student discount on offer in a restaurant.

If you can say honestly that you are likely financially worse off than the person serving you, then I don’t see anything morally wrong with asking for the service charge to be removed. You shouldn’t have to impact your own quality of life to pay more than the menu price of the dishes you order. Tipping by definition should be optional and given in recognition of good and not average service. If you get tipped regardless, then there’s no incentive to do a good job and that isn’t a pleasant dining experience. 

I’m not a fan of the culture and if I think a tip is warranted, I would sooner leave £x in cash rather than be told how much I should tip aka service charge. If the server then puts it in a pot to be divided up among all the staff, that’s up to their conscience - but I’ve done my bit try to stop the owners getting it by not paying the service charge straight out on card. 

Pay what you think the experience is worth, unless that’s below the menu price of the items (unless you’ve had something removed for an unacceptably long wait or similar, of course.)

Stevev99

In the UK, some establishments include a service charge in the bill, which I think is wrong, however I'd always look to pay the server a tip if I felt it warranted it, and usually about 10%. That being said, if the service has been terrible, I've never felt uncomfortable not leaving anything.
I'll never forget in the States where they're tip obsessed, a group of us were in New York and had horrendous service in this place, food late, food wrong, sulky waiters etc. We got to the end and simply paid but offered no tip and it all kicked off a bit, the manager ended up confronting us for not leaving a tip even though we maintained the line 'we'll tip when the service warrants it, bad service means no tip'. They pretty much ended up marching us out of the restaurant!

jlfrs01

I think the price as advertised on the menu should be the price a diner pays. The menu price includes the food, drink and presumably the mark-up on the raw ingredients takes into accounts running and staff costs. Why are waiting staff excluded? After all, if you go into a pub and order a round of drinks you don't pay the bar staff to prepare them.

What irks me is the higher service charge applied to large groups. If I turn up with a room of people for an occasion or a group of work colleagues potentially spending a high 4-figure sum I would like to think I'd get a discount, not penalised for spending lots of money on one table which is easier to wait on than several smaller ones.

Plymview

It definitely isn't a London-centric thing. We stopped going to a wine bar (in the South West incidentally) because there was a 10% service charge on a soft drink, which you had to open yourself. No service charge however on the wine, which came from a machine. I'd much rather have the French system. All costs included in the price and no 'sneaky' chargse added on. You can leave a little extra for especially good service.  In my opinion, the American system is just crazy. 

mazza73monk

tips and service charge? do one! was out for a meal last saturday, 12 of us, i paid the bill, tip was ZERO. Why? i dont get tips in my line of work, and i work in a service industry. nobody made the guy become a waiter, he's getting paid, i'm not paying him twice

jlfrs01

Plymview said:

It definitely isn't a London-centric thing. We stopped going to a wine bar (in the South West incidentally) because there was a 10% service charge on a soft drink, which you had to open yourself. No service charge however on the wine, which came from a machine. I'd much rather have the French system. All costs included in the price and no 'sneaky' chargse added on. You can leave a little extra for especially good service.  In my opinion, the American system is just crazy. 

Absolutely! I was chased down the street in the US once for not leaving a tip - over there 25% is expected and enforced, mind you they are prepared to work for it.

ctate64

This 'discretionary service charge' practice is something that has crept upon us in recent years, especially in England. It appears even on something as basic as a cup of coffee which is brought to you. In Scotland this practice does not appear to have caught on much. I can think of a London based department store in St Andrew's Sq, Edinburgh, which has introduced it and I now do not go there. To my mind it is an underhand practice which puts the customer in a (deliberately) embarrassing position if the service is poor. It is a bit of a liberty to be honest and the government should put a stop to it. By all means just ask for the service to removed if it is poor in any way.

thegentleway

Of course you should tip; generosity is a virtue.

Being a miser makes you miserable. 

Snowflake

I have a thing about tipping, always have had, be it in restaurants, hairdressers,taxis or where ever. My sister, however, who lives in America, is horrified when I say we don’t need to leave a tip. I mean we literally spent one night in a hotel in Europe recently and she wanted to leave a tip in the room, well she did leave a tip, with my cash as she didn’t have any😡My nephew from USA insists on tipping bar staff here too, I do tell him that’s not a thing. My dilemma……should we leave a tip for our chalet host in France ??