Applying for probate online - detail of the 20 day wait and possible identification documents

SnowMan

In my role as executor, I posted the inheritance tax forms (IHT400 and IHT421 forms) recorded delivery to HMRC on Saturday 4th November and they received the forms on Monday 6th November. The full estate forms were required because I needed to claim residence nil rate band, and without it inheritance tax would have been payable.

I've got a few questions in relation to the online probate application which I'm hoping someone might know the answers to

1. Can I apply for probate on Saturday 2nd December? (as by then 20 working days = 4 x 5 full working day weeks will have passed since I posted the IHT400 and IHT421). Or do I have to wait until Monday 4th or Tuesday 5th December (based on 20 working days after receipt by HMRC of the forms)?

2. When you do the actual probate online submit (I've completed up to that point so far) does it ask for the date you sent the IHT400 and IHT421 to HMRC and does it work out the 20 working days from that and stop you submitting too early?

3. Do you get any sort of acknowledgement from HMRC that they have processed the IHT421 and sent it on to the Probate Registry during the 20 working day wait? Or do you just assume because you have allowed 20 working days that the IHT421 has hopefully been passed on? 

4. Might I be asked to provide a certified copy of my own passport as part of the required documents for the probate application? My only photo ID is my passport (as I've still got a paper driving licence) and this expires in January, and I need to renew that now for a trip in February, so not sure whether to do that now or wait until the probate application has been submitted

Thanks in advance

deewillow

Hello, I had similar process to you and actually submitted the HMRC forms and the probate application at the same time - in error as I hadn't read properly about leaving a 20 day gap! But it didnt cause any problems though. The HMRC forms were acknowledged by letter about a week after sending them (by courier). The probate application took a bit longer to acknowledge receipt - seems as though they run slower than HMRC anyway. In the end by the time the probate team got onto my application the relevant parts from HMRC must of been passed across. So all worked out fine. From application of probate online to granting took 10 weeks. Fairly simple case with no IHT to pay and a solicitor prepared will leaving all to the daughters. Good Luck!

Runner_Duck

Point # 3 - No HMRC do not tell you when they send on IHT421.  In our case HMRC 'forgot' to send it and we were only aware there was an issue when Probate team emailed 8 weeks later to say they could not proceed as the application was incomplete due to the missing IHT421.  The website for tracking probate applications is not particularly useful as it does not give any indication that documents are missing.  If I have to apply for probate again, I'd probably call the HMRC 4 weeks after submitting the application and check there were no issues with IHT and any required forms had been sent on.

SnowMan

deewillow said:

Hello, I had similar process to you and actually submitted the HMRC forms and the probate application at the same time - in error as I hadn't read properly about leaving a 20 day gap! But it didnt cause any problems though. The HMRC forms were acknowledged by letter about a week after sending them (by courier). The probate application took a bit longer to acknowledge receipt - seems as though they run slower than HMRC anyway. In the end by the time the probate team got onto my application the relevant parts from HMRC must of been passed across. So all worked out fine. From application of probate online to granting took 10 weeks. Fairly simple case with no IHT to pay and a solicitor prepared will leaving all to the daughters. Good Luck!

Thanks. Given the current probate timescales it seems unlikely that the Probate Registry wouldn't have the IHT forms by the time they substantively look at the application, regardless of how soon after the IHT forms are sent the probate application goes in.

So the real reasons that the IHT forms are missing, in cases where they are, at least at the moment, is in most cases  based on Runner_Duck's experience likely to be because HMRC and the Probate Registry fail to correctly transfer the IHT421 onto the probate application, not because the applicant has applied too early.

It would make much more sense to allow the probate application to go in any time after the IHT forms have been sent and there to be a flag on the probate application record to show whether the IHT421 had been transferred by HMRC. And for the caseworkers who are looking substantively at the applications to only look at cases where the flag was showing as IHT421 transferred. And for there to be routine communication by the Probate Registry with HMRC after say 4 weeks on cases whether the probate applicant ticked to say they had completed the IHT400 and IHT421, but where the flag indicated no IHT421 had been transferred. Of course that would stop the Probate Registry playing the trick of delaying applications for non-exempt estates by 4 weeks and so making their turnaround times look 4 weeks better than they really are for this sub-section of applications.

 

poppystar

mmm …I think you are crediting HMRC and Probate with a level of joined up thinking that simply does not exist.

Just go ahead and get the passport - you probably need the holiday and in the highly unlikely event they want you to prove identity just accept the delay. I got a passport renewed in under two weeks but it’s still best to get it sorted well in advance of the holiday. And if it comes back in two weeks you’ll probably find that’s well before the probate application is first looked at! You can always get a certified copy of the existing passport now if you’re really worried. 

SnowMan

Just to update:

I've submitted the probate application online today

It doesn't ask anywhere for the date that the IHT400 and IHT421 were sent to HMRC

The only documentation the Probate Registry are asking for from me at the moment is the original will and codicils

Not heard anything from HMRC at all since sending them the IHT400 and IHT421. I'll ring HMRC next week to see if they've processed the IHT400 and IHT421 forms and sent on the IHT421 to the Probate Registry

SnowMan

And to further update I received a letter today from HMRC (dated 27th November) to say they've emailed the IH421 to the Probate Registry and saying I can now apply for the grant of probate if I haven't already done so. If they have any questions about the IHT400 they will contact me by 19th February 2024.