PayPal fraud

mitch2509

Hi all, not sure if this is the right forum do apologise if not.

2 weeks ago I go 2 emails from PayPal saying I’d spent £479.99 both times. I immediately rang PayPal and they sent a report to their fraud department and it came back 24 hours later saying the payments were not unauthorised. I rang them again quite upset (not being rude) and they sent it back to fraud to be looked at again and yet again it came back as not unauthorised.

By this point I’m really upset, I’m a single working mum with 4 kids and just don’t have the money to pay, so I call again and they advise they will claim under “buyer protection” (didn’t sound right to me as I didn’t buy the dam things. 7 days have gone since then so I rang for an update to be told their still looking into it but I’m really worried now.

They're not really telling me anything and depending on if the person collected from Argos or had it delivered, delivery would be best as it would not be my address.

sorry for waffling on, my question is what can I do? It’s making me physically ill worrying about it.

TIA. 

Rachel

prettyandfluffy

Firstly I would suggest you change your PayPal password as a priority. It does sound like they're looking into it but fraud investigations take as long as necessary and they won't tell you anything whilst the investigation is ongoing.  I know this is massively stressful for you but you need to let them complete their investigation.  At the end of that if you're still not happy, contact wherever the transactions were charged to - your bank account or credit card provider.

mitch2509

prettyandfluffy said:

Firstly I would suggest you change your PayPal password as a priority. It does sound like they're looking into it but fraud investigations take as long as necessary and they won't tell you anything whilst the investigation is ongoing.  I know this is massively stressful for you but you need to let them complete their investigation.  At the end of that if you're still not happy, contact wherever the transactions were charged to - your bank account or credit card provider.

Changing my password was the first thing I did just in case they were still trying to make more purchases. I’ve spoke to my bank and they’ve said they will help me when the money actually comes out my bank account.

thanks 

Exodi

Just since some of these scams can be quite sophisticated - are you absolutely sure you are speaking to Paypal (e.g. did you call them off a phone number on their official website or if you Google the number, does it show on paypal.com).

A common scam is to send fake Paypal emails with fake contact numbers on them. While an email would suggest money is coming out of your bank, in reality it's not and the game is to suggest that they can cancel it if you confirm your full card details for the scammer to 'refund, or pay them a cancellation fee or something of the sort.

I'm not suggesting that's the case here, especially as it's unlike a scammer to have someone on the hook but tell them to keep waiting - but better safe than sorry.

I'll ask some direct questions, since Paypal seem to suggest the payments were authorised - does anyone know your account details (e.g. login/password). Do you have 2FA set up? Anyone in your house have access to your mobile device, e.g. kids.

I suspected Fraud on my elderly stepdad's Paypal account a few years ago, and in the end it came to light his son had been the one spending money on it... caused a bit of family drama.

If they are conducting a fraud investigation, they will remain open-minded (in some cases, not yours, account holders may have willingly given their details out to later claim a refund). They won't disclose details of their investigation while it's ongoing.

mitch2509

Exodi said:

Just since some of these scams can be quite sophisticated - are you absolutely sure you are speaking to Paypal (e.g. did you call them off a phone number on their official website or if you Google the number, does it show on paypal.com).

A common scam is to send fake Paypal emails with fake contact numbers on them. While an email would suggest money is coming out of your bank, in reality it's not and the game is to suggest that they can cancel it if you confirm your full card details for the scammer to 'refund, or pay them a cancellation fee or something of the sort.

I'm not suggesting that's the case here, especially as it's unlike a scammer to have someone on the hook but tell them to keep waiting - but better safe than sorry.

I'll ask some direct questions, since Paypal seem to suggest the payments were authorised - does anyone know your account details (e.g. login/password). Do you have 2FA set up? Anyone in your house have access to your mobile device, e.g. kids.

I suspected Fraud on my elderly stepdad's Paypal account a few years ago, and in the end it came to light his son had been the one spending money on it... caused a bit of family drama.

If they are conducting a fraud investigation, they will remain open-minded (in some cases, not yours, account holders may have willingly given their details out to later claim a refund). They won't disclose details of their investigation while it's ongoing.

Hi

Yes definitely speaking to PayPal and the money was showing in my bank account also.

ive been wracking my brain and to be honest im not great with passwords but my PayPal is a long one and is not the same as any other password I have. Also I’ve never given it out to anyone as it would be as bad as giving your bank information.

i have the the things you mentioned in place and none of them were triggered when they made these transactions, I’ve questioned PayPal about that and they said they don’t always trigger so I asked what about the double transaction of the same amount? And they said it not unusual at this time of year so it wouldn’t trigger the security protocol.

to be honest it’s been a nightmare, I’m so sorry your step dad went through this also.

thanks for your reply

Exodi

mitch2509 said:

Exodi said:

Just since some of these scams can be quite sophisticated - are you absolutely sure you are speaking to Paypal (e.g. did you call them off a phone number on their official website or if you Google the number, does it show on paypal.com).

A common scam is to send fake Paypal emails with fake contact numbers on them. While an email would suggest money is coming out of your bank, in reality it's not and the game is to suggest that they can cancel it if you confirm your full card details for the scammer to 'refund, or pay them a cancellation fee or something of the sort.

I'm not suggesting that's the case here, especially as it's unlike a scammer to have someone on the hook but tell them to keep waiting - but better safe than sorry.

I'll ask some direct questions, since Paypal seem to suggest the payments were authorised - does anyone know your account details (e.g. login/password). Do you have 2FA set up? Anyone in your house have access to your mobile device, e.g. kids.

I suspected Fraud on my elderly stepdad's Paypal account a few years ago, and in the end it came to light his son had been the one spending money on it... caused a bit of family drama.

If they are conducting a fraud investigation, they will remain open-minded (in some cases, not yours, account holders may have willingly given their details out to later claim a refund). They won't disclose details of their investigation while it's ongoing.

Hi

Yes definitely speaking to PayPal and the money was showing in my bank account also.

ive been wracking my brain and to be honest im not great with passwords but my PayPal is a long one and is not the same as any other password I have. Also I’ve never given it out to anyone as it would be as bad as giving your bank information.

i have the the things you mentioned in place and none of them were triggered when they made these transactions, I’ve questioned PayPal about that and they said they don’t always trigger so I asked what about the double transaction of the same amount? And they said it not unusual at this time of year so it wouldn’t trigger the security protocol.

to be honest it’s been a nightmare, I’m so sorry your step dad went through this also.

thanks for your reply

Sorry to hear you are going through the same.

Do you use a password manager (for example, where your internet browser remembers your password so when you go on the website again, it's autofilled?).

Regarding 2FA, it is possible for services to allow you to set 'Trusted Devices' so that 2FA isn't requested. Is there any possibility that someone could have used one of your devices?

Sorry if this comes across as suspicious, these will be the same things PayPal will be investigating, and unfortunately I've got firsthand experience of being adamant it is no-one we knew and he MUST have been hacked, before learning it was a close family member.

Fortunately for you it sounds like physical items have been purchased, which poses a gigantic risk for the fraudster. Can you see the delivery address on the PayPal transaction? Or can you see the merchant and speak to the merchant directly, maybe even get it cancelled (after all, you bought the goods) or confirm the delivery address.

mitch2509

Exodi said:

mitch2509 said:

Exodi said:

Just since some of these scams can be quite sophisticated - are you absolutely sure you are speaking to Paypal (e.g. did you call them off a phone number on their official website or if you Google the number, does it show on paypal.com).

A common scam is to send fake Paypal emails with fake contact numbers on them. While an email would suggest money is coming out of your bank, in reality it's not and the game is to suggest that they can cancel it if you confirm your full card details for the scammer to 'refund, or pay them a cancellation fee or something of the sort.

I'm not suggesting that's the case here, especially as it's unlike a scammer to have someone on the hook but tell them to keep waiting - but better safe than sorry.

I'll ask some direct questions, since Paypal seem to suggest the payments were authorised - does anyone know your account details (e.g. login/password). Do you have 2FA set up? Anyone in your house have access to your mobile device, e.g. kids.

I suspected Fraud on my elderly stepdad's Paypal account a few years ago, and in the end it came to light his son had been the one spending money on it... caused a bit of family drama.

If they are conducting a fraud investigation, they will remain open-minded (in some cases, not yours, account holders may have willingly given their details out to later claim a refund). They won't disclose details of their investigation while it's ongoing.

Hi

Yes definitely speaking to PayPal and the money was showing in my bank account also.

ive been wracking my brain and to be honest im not great with passwords but my PayPal is a long one and is not the same as any other password I have. Also I’ve never given it out to anyone as it would be as bad as giving your bank information.

i have the the things you mentioned in place and none of them were triggered when they made these transactions, I’ve questioned PayPal about that and they said they don’t always trigger so I asked what about the double transaction of the same amount? And they said it not unusual at this time of year so it wouldn’t trigger the security protocol.

to be honest it’s been a nightmare, I’m so sorry your step dad went through this also.

thanks for your reply

Sorry to hear you are going through the same.

Do you use a password manager (for example, where your internet browser remembers your password so when you go on the website again, it's autofilled?).

Regarding 2FA, it is possible for services to allow you to set 'Trusted Devices' so that 2FA isn't requested. Is there any possibility that someone could have used one of your devices?

Sorry if this comes across as suspicious, these will be the same things PayPal will be investigating, and unfortunately I've got firsthand experience of being adamant it is no-one we knew and he MUST have been hacked, before learning it was a close family member.

Fortunately for you it sounds like physical items have been purchased, which poses a gigantic risk for the fraudster. Can you see the delivery address on the PayPal transaction? Or can you see the merchant and speak to the merchant directly, maybe even get it cancelled (after all, you bought the goods) or confirm the delivery address.

My PayPal password has to be entered manually it doesn’t come up on my keychain. EBay told me that there security protocols IE texting you a code don’t always trigger so that’s how they get away with it. I really don’t know why they can’t trigger every time then this probably wouldn’t have happened to me.

as much as I can remember no one has my password other than me, if they would give me some info then I might have a better idea who has it if they have.

PayPal only need to look at the IP address to know it wasn’t me, as has soon as I got the email from them I went on and changed the password so they would see I was at home.

they aren’t telling me anything at all at the minute, I’m just so frustrated to be honest and I will be closing my PayPal after this is over with

Thanks 

born_again

To be honest Pay Pal do not have to tell you anything.

Depending on how Pay Pal is linked to your bank account depends on how bank can deal with it. 

DD is going to be more difficult. As it is relying on dd guarantee to process. PP can simply reject on they have not broken the guarantee.

Card payment will be easier, as for PP to contest they will have to provide details, which could include names & address for purchases.

mitch2509

Rborn_again said:

To be honest Pay Pal do not have to tell you anything.

Depending on how Pay Pal is linked to your bank account depends on how bank can deal with it. 

DD is going to be more difficult. As it is relying on dd guarantee to process. PP can simply reject on they have not broken the guarantee.

Card payment will be easier, as for PP to contest they will have to provide details, which could include names & address for purchases.

It would have been direct debit but I cancelled it before they could take it but they do have my card details. Bank have made a note on my account and I’m to ring back when/if paypal finally take it out.

i know they don’t have to tell me anything which is crazy, i suppose i could do a subject access report and see what that tells me.

i will fight this to the death

thanks for your reply 

RefluentBeans

Do you recognise the merchant on your PayPal? 

Have you double checked that people in the same house as you didn’t purchase it? Normally PayPal will recognise a different browser, and do a check. It suggests to me that it didn’t trip for some reason - and the most likely explanation is that the device/browser that completed the transaction was known to PayPal as one that you’ve used (and certified) before. This could be a laptop, iPad, phone or even a work PC. Someone may have accidentally used the wrong account. 

mitch2509

RefluentBeans said:

Do you recognise the merchant on your PayPal? 

Have you double checked that people in the same house as you didn’t purchase it? Normally PayPal will recognise a different browser, and do a check. It suggests to me that it didn’t trip for some reason - and the most likely explanation is that the device/browser that completed the transaction was known to PayPal as one that you’ve used (and certified) before. This could be a laptop, iPad, phone or even a work PC. Someone may have accidentally used the wrong account. 

It was Argos and I’ve only ever logged in off my phone or iPad and they’re both password and or face recognition protected. There’s only my kids living with me all under 16 and they was all home at the time so I’m pretty sure it wasn’t them. 

I don’t even write my passwords down I just hope I remember them so it can’t be that either.

I’ve been looking and I think I can take them to the financial ombudsman if it doesn’t go in my favour. 

Just FYI PayPal told me that there security protocols don’t always kick in so I said even if 2 transactions of the same amount are made and they said no especially at this time of year because it’s no uncommon. PayPal is not as secure as they would have you believe.

Thanks for your reply