Barclays Removing overdraft

Zanderman

Robintones said:

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

and currently, I have overdrafts which I can use. Why should I have them taken away for the convenience of Barclays?

Because it's entirely their decision about whether to lend you money or not, and overdraft terms always make it clear that these are a privilege rather than a right and can be withdrawn at any time - this can happen even if they're in use, but if, by your own admission, you've had one for nearly fifty years and never used it then it's less surprising that they take the view that it's unlikely to be needed.

I do take the point that it seems inconsistent that they offer a substantial loan instead though....

When you say you have overdrafts (plural), can't you use your non-Barclays one(s) if push came to shove?

You are right. I will move from them, just wondered if they were doing this to other older customers.

Are you under the impression that they're basing their decision on your age (as opposed to income, etc), and if so, based on what?

They had a script which they could not deviate from. It was based around income solely. Once you retire, you can change your income by managing how much you drawdown, which is a choice dependent upon activity and mostly tax considerations. So I would say that not understanding this stage of life is a factor. Obviously, people can retire at any age, but pension drawdown is only available after 55.

Actually I would suspect (I don't know, so happy to be corrected) that most people when they retire are not in drawdown with therefore variable income, certainly not traditionally. Pensions traditionally are a fixed sum, index-linked. Either though being DB or an annuity from DC.

So maybe the situation you're describing of poor comprehension relates simply to variable income - which can be at any age, not to pensions.  You don't need to be retired to have a variable income, and a variable income isn't more likely in retirement.

If so it may be incorrect to attribute this to 'stage of life' misunderstanding, more a variable income misunderstanding. Which seems more likely to me.

As others have said I'm not at all sure I understand your issue over the withdrawal of the overdraft facility you never ever used, but clearly your mileage is different to mine!   

Robintones

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

and currently, I have overdrafts which I can use. Why should I have them taken away for the convenience of Barclays?

Because it's entirely their decision about whether to lend you money or not, and overdraft terms always make it clear that these are a privilege rather than a right and can be withdrawn at any time - this can happen even if they're in use, but if, by your own admission, you've had one for nearly fifty years and never used it then it's less surprising that they take the view that it's unlikely to be needed.

I do take the point that it seems inconsistent that they offer a substantial loan instead though....

When you say you have overdrafts (plural), can't you use your non-Barclays one(s) if push came to shove?

You are right. I will move from them, just wondered if they were doing this to other older customers.

Are you under the impression that they're basing their decision on your age (as opposed to income, etc), and if so, based on what?

They had a script which they could not deviate from. It was based around income solely. Once you retire, you can change your income by managing how much you drawdown, which is a choice dependent upon activity and mostly tax considerations. So I would say that not understanding this stage of life is a factor. Obviously, people can retire at any age, but pension drawdown is only available after 55.

But people of any age can be in a situation where their income is less reliable and predictable, such as self-employed, limited company contractors, or unemployed for that matter, so policies based on income are perfectly legitimate rather than potentially unlawful if they were ageist as such....

I would put this down to incompetence. So I will be ageist now; are the bankers of today up to the job?

Not sure exactly what that relates to, in terms of whether you're commenting on the bank's policy decision to remove some unused overdraft facilities, or your view that they don't adequately accommodate those with variable incomes, or your feelings about scripted conversations?

I understand why they want to get rid of overdrafts. I have now had many reasons from them and their media team, which were not covered by the "Deepening customer relationships" consultant. The whole process is a confused mess which has not been in the slightest customer-centric. They have sent confusing messages from different departments and have not considered customers who they profess to have undertaken reviews on, holistically. If I were the Chair of Barclays I would be looking for heads to roll. Luckily, there are other banks out there who have seen that customer care is what they are about.

eskbanker

Robintones said:

I understand why they want to get rid of overdrafts. I have now had many reasons from them and their media team, which were not covered by the "Deepening customer relationships" consultant. The whole process is a confused mess which has not been in the slightest customer-centric. They have sent confusing messages from different departments and have not considered customers who they profess to have undertaken reviews on, holistically. If I were the Chair of Barclays I would be looking for heads to roll.

Fair enough, I can see why mixed messages will cause confusion.

Robintones said:
Luckily, there are other banks out there who have seen that customer care is what they are about.

Out of curiosity, which ones are you referring to, and how much direct experience of them have you had?  Pretty much all of them come in for stick on here and the likes of TrustPilot, although that's not to say that they're all of comparable standard, and much is subjective according to requirements and expectations....

Robintones

Zanderman said:

Robintones said:

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

and currently, I have overdrafts which I can use. Why should I have them taken away for the convenience of Barclays?

Because it's entirely their decision about whether to lend you money or not, and overdraft terms always make it clear that these are a privilege rather than a right and can be withdrawn at any time - this can happen even if they're in use, but if, by your own admission, you've had one for nearly fifty years and never used it then it's less surprising that they take the view that it's unlikely to be needed.

I do take the point that it seems inconsistent that they offer a substantial loan instead though....

When you say you have overdrafts (plural), can't you use your non-Barclays one(s) if push came to shove?

You are right. I will move from them, just wondered if they were doing this to other older customers.

Are you under the impression that they're basing their decision on your age (as opposed to income, etc), and if so, based on what?

They had a script which they could not deviate from. It was based around income solely. Once you retire, you can change your income by managing how much you drawdown, which is a choice dependent upon activity and mostly tax considerations. So I would say that not understanding this stage of life is a factor. Obviously, people can retire at any age, but pension drawdown is only available after 55.

Actually I would suspect (I don't know, so happy to be corrected) that most people when they retire are not in drawdown with therefore variable income, certainly not traditionally. Pensions traditionally are a fixed sum, index-linked. Either though being DB or an annuity from DC.

So maybe the situation you're describing of poor comprehension relates simply to variable income - which can be at any age, not to pensions.  You don't need to be retired to have a variable income, and a variable income isn't more likely in retirement.

If so it may be incorrect to attribute this to 'stage of life' misunderstanding, more a variable income misunderstanding. Which seems more likely to me.

As others have said I'm not at all sure I understand your issue over the withdrawal of the overdraft facility you never ever used, but clearly your mileage is different to mine!   

Overdrafts are a useful facility and tool in money management which cost the supplier. The first £500 is FOC so why would I want to give free credit up? Barclay's process for removing overdrafts seems heavy-handed and inept. An overdraft facility is not just based on income, both assets, track history and credit rating are also important. I started this to find out if others had been similarly treated. So far, the denizens of the MSE Forum seem to be pro-Barclays, which I am surprised by. 

GeoffTF

Robintones said:

GeoffTF said:

Robintones said:

Matt, How can the same bank deem an overdraft unaffordable but a short-term unsecured loan ten times bigger affordable? 

Barclays will have their own reasons and we can only speculate. I expect that they have targets both for "selling" loans and cutting unused overdrafts. They are in control of the loans they issue, but not in the size of the overdrafts that people run up. If they slash or remove unused overdrafts, most people will shrug their shoulders. Those who complain will often be found to have shaky finances.

You may be able to find another bank that will offer you an overdraft or a credit card. Alternatively, if the worst comes to the worst, I expect that there are still sub-prime lenders out there. It would be much better to have some emergency cash in an easy access account though.

I think we all agree that Barclays don't care about their customers. I am in a fortunate position in that I have no financial worries, something that Barclays should have known if they were not so patently dysfunctional.

In that case you do not really have a beef. Further thoughts are that the pre-approved loan may actually be subject to an income assessment. It is also worth noting that banks make lots of money from loans that are paid back, but there is no reward for them in offering unused overdrafts, and not much reward for lending a small amount of money for a few months. There was time when banks were keen to offer big overdraft and credit card limits, but they came under political pressure to rein that in.

Robintones

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

I understand why they want to get rid of overdrafts. I have now had many reasons from them and their media team, which were not covered by the "Deepening customer relationships" consultant. The whole process is a confused mess which has not been in the slightest customer-centric. They have sent confusing messages from different departments and have not considered customers who they profess to have undertaken reviews on, holistically. If I were the Chair of Barclays I would be looking for heads to roll.

Fair enough, I can see why mixed messages will cause confusion.

Robintones said:
Luckily, there are other banks out there who have seen that customer care is what they are about.

Out of curiosity, which ones are you referring to, and how much direct experience of them have you had?  Pretty much all of them come in for stick on here and the likes of TrustPilot, although that's not to say that they're all of comparable standard, and much is subjective according to requirements and expectations....

I have never looked outside of Barclays, as they have always apologised when they have erred. But now I have all the cards, and time on my hands I will be investigating them all. Have you any suggestions?

Zanderman

Robintones said:

Zanderman said:

Robintones said:

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

eskbanker said:

Robintones said:

and currently, I have overdrafts which I can use. Why should I have them taken away for the convenience of Barclays?

Because it's entirely their decision about whether to lend you money or not, and overdraft terms always make it clear that these are a privilege rather than a right and can be withdrawn at any time - this can happen even if they're in use, but if, by your own admission, you've had one for nearly fifty years and never used it then it's less surprising that they take the view that it's unlikely to be needed.

I do take the point that it seems inconsistent that they offer a substantial loan instead though....

When you say you have overdrafts (plural), can't you use your non-Barclays one(s) if push came to shove?

You are right. I will move from them, just wondered if they were doing this to other older customers.

Are you under the impression that they're basing their decision on your age (as opposed to income, etc), and if so, based on what?

They had a script which they could not deviate from. It was based around income solely. Once you retire, you can change your income by managing how much you drawdown, which is a choice dependent upon activity and mostly tax considerations. So I would say that not understanding this stage of life is a factor. Obviously, people can retire at any age, but pension drawdown is only available after 55.

Actually I would suspect (I don't know, so happy to be corrected) that most people when they retire are not in drawdown with therefore variable income, certainly not traditionally. Pensions traditionally are a fixed sum, index-linked. Either though being DB or an annuity from DC.

So maybe the situation you're describing of poor comprehension relates simply to variable income - which can be at any age, not to pensions.  You don't need to be retired to have a variable income, and a variable income isn't more likely in retirement.

If so it may be incorrect to attribute this to 'stage of life' misunderstanding, more a variable income misunderstanding. Which seems more likely to me.

As others have said I'm not at all sure I understand your issue over the withdrawal of the overdraft facility you never ever used, but clearly your mileage is different to mine!   

Overdrafts are a useful facility and tool in money management which cost the supplier. The first £500 is FOC so why would I want to give free credit up? Barclay's process for removing overdrafts seems heavy-handed and inept. An overdraft facility is not just based on income, both assets, track history and credit rating are also important. I started this to find out if others had been similarly treated. So far, the denizens of the MSE Forum seem to be pro-Barclays, which I am surprised by. 

Who has been 'pro Barclays'?  My comments have been about your interpretation of what you've been told by your bank, which happens to be Barclays.
A response to your comments.  Not any defence of Barclays as such. 
You may well get the same sort of experience with many banks. 
As for Barclays have a read of my comments about them in the switching offer thread - you'll see I'm hardly 'pro Barclays'.  Quite the opposite!! 

eskbanker

Robintones said:
An overdraft facility is not just based on income, both assets, track history and credit rating are also important.

Decisions on providing overdraft facilities are based on whatever the lender decides them to be (subject to compliance with legislation and regulations)!

Robintones said:
So far, the denizens of the MSE Forum seem to be pro-Barclays, which I am surprised by. 

I don't see any evidence of anyone being pro-Barclays as such?  There's no need for anyone to 'take sides', and challenging a poster's opinions and preconceptions doesn't signify alignment with the institution concerned....

Descrabled

I concur with your feelings. We are in the process of moving all our accounts from Barclays. The final ISAs will transfer in February when they mature. We don't need to use a bank that doesn't care about its customers.

Robintones

GeoffTF said:

Robintones said:

GeoffTF said:

Robintones said:

Matt, How can the same bank deem an overdraft unaffordable but a short-term unsecured loan ten times bigger affordable? 

Barclays will have their own reasons and we can only speculate. I expect that they have targets both for "selling" loans and cutting unused overdrafts. They are in control of the loans they issue, but not in the size of the overdrafts that people run up. If they slash or remove unused overdrafts, most people will shrug their shoulders. Those who complain will often be found to have shaky finances.

You may be able to find another bank that will offer you an overdraft or a credit card. Alternatively, if the worst comes to the worst, I expect that there are still sub-prime lenders out there. It would be much better to have some emergency cash in an easy access account though.

I think we all agree that Barclays don't care about their customers. I am in a fortunate position in that I have no financial worries, something that Barclays should have known if they were not so patently dysfunctional.

In that case you do not really have a beef. Further thoughts are that the pre-approved loan may actually be subject to an income assessment. It is also worth noting that banks make lots of money from loans that are paid back, but there is no reward for them in offering unused overdrafts, and not much reward for lending a small amount of money for a few months. There was time when banks were keen to offer big overdraft and credit card limits, but they came under political pressure to rein that in.

They came under financial pressure to hold sufficient capital reserves against all potential loans, which included overdrafts. I do have a beef. If Amazon Prime said it was cutting its music service, I would lose a free service. This is no different. If Barclays had talked to me and undertaken a financial review, they could have thoughtfully suggested how to move my accounts. But no, they sent a letter saying they were taking something away and then tried to justify this on the spurious grounds of affordability, based solely on income (which is a nonsense).
I raised this to see if this is a general issue, but so far it seems that I am the only one whining, The deepening Customer relationships consultant said that the reason I waited so long on the phone was that they were having loads of calls after the letters went out (Something they evidently hadn't expected.)