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P4 parking letter before claim, plus unrelated 2nd parking ticket - Scotland

Hello!

As a pretense - I live in Scotland, my car is registered in Scotland, and I have not named the driver in either case.

I received a parking ticket from P4 parking earlier this year (forgot to display visitor parking pass at a friend's flat) and followed the advice of ignoring the monthly letters from the debt collectors/parking company. However, I have now received a letter before claim from the parking company.

From reading other threads my inclination is to continue to ignore, but I wanted to double check as I could only find threads where the letter before claim had come from soliciters the likes of Gladstones and not the parking company themselves. I also can't tell if the letter is really from P4 or the debt collectors posing as P4. Letter attached with personal info removed:



Also, whilst I am making a post I'd like to ask another question; I received a second parking fine from UKPC last month for overstaying in a retail car park (not my lucky year!) and intend on ignoring this one as well, however am a bit worried that as I now have 2 outstanding tickets this could be used against me. Do these companies communicate in any way? I know the answer to this is probably not but I'd have better peace of mind if someone confirmed this for me!

Thanks in advance for any advice anyone can give :)

Comments

  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,012
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    edited 26 November 2023 at 7:38PM
    Plan A is always a complaint from the registered keeper to the landowner and keeper's MSP.

    For the first one, respond to the LBC stating that since the keeper lives in Scotland, the vehicle is registered in Scotland, keeper liability does not exist in Scotland, The PoFA 2012 does not exist in Scotland, and the courts of England and Wales have no jurisdiction in Scotland, P4 should cancel now and save them selves money.

    Ignore the second one but do enact Plan A. It is never too late to do so.

    Do be warned that will change next year thanks to your former Dear Leader when she agreed that keeper liability should be a thing in Scotland.

    PPCs are not permitted to share personal data between each other, and probably wouldn't even if they were allowed. That doesn't mean they won't but I think it unlikely, but since the keeper can't be held liable north of the border, no, they can't hold it against you.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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  • Thanks @Fruitcake !

    RE complaining to the landowner - I'm a bit confused why this would help in my cases where although I was within my rights to use the parking, I have technically broken the rules of the contract which has warranted the parking tickets I received. I'm aware these companies are predatory, but don't the landowners ultimately want someone who will keep out people who don't follow their parking rules?

    ps - I am aware of the unfortunate upcoming change in law, thank you Dear Leader  :|

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,153
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    but don't the landowners ultimately want someone who will keep out people who don't follow their parking rules?
    But in most cases, the landowners don't make the parking rules, the PPCs do. And as the landowner is getting all this 'for free', cloudy mist descends over their eyes, believing the PPC BS, and basically letting them get on with it. I wish they'd do a 'before and after' analysis - profits immediately pre-engagement, profits a couple of years post-engagement. While I'm sure the PPC spiel would include 'greater footfall, greater profits', I'm sure they wouldn't be encouraging any of the above detailed analysis. 

    As the saying goes, there's rarely such a thing as a free lunch!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

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  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,012
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    edited 26 November 2023 at 8:11PM
    kalima444 said:
    Thanks @Fruitcake !

    RE complaining to the landowner - I'm a bit confused why this would help in my cases where although I was within my rights to use the parking, I have technically broken the rules of the contract which has warranted the parking tickets I received. I'm aware these companies are predatory, but don't the landowners ultimately want someone who will keep out people who don't follow their parking rules?

    ps - I am aware of the unfortunate upcoming change in law, thank you Dear Leader  :|


    I'm a bity confused by your reply. Whether the driver did or did not breach the parking terms has no bearing on whether or not the keeper should complain. The driver can be held liable, the keeper cannot.
    What I'm really saying is, don't imply on this forum who may or may not have been driving at the time of the alleged event. Whilst PPCs can't read every post, they do monitor this forum, so it is best practice to get into the habit of not revealing the driver's identity.

    A landowner complaint may get the charge cancelled, meaning you will never have to deal with it again. It also warns the landowner that there is a problem at the site they own, and may make them think twice about renewing the PPC's contract if they get lots of complaints and/or start to lose customers.


    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,500
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    Out of all the hundreds (thousands?) of 'successful complaints about PPCs' shown in the thread of that name - linked in the first post of the NEWBIES thread - you will struggle to find a single case where the alleged breach didn't happen.

    It's irrelevant to a landowner complaint.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Thanks all, my next questions would then be;

    Is there a template for complaining to the landowner? I have looked at the successful complaints thread but maybe I have missed it. 

    Should I write my response to the LBC to the PPC or to the debt collectors?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,500
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    edited 27 November 2023 at 4:12PM
    No template but hundreds/thousands of examples in the obvious thread linked in the NEWBIES thread!  First URL link there. Also the Complaints thread in question is current today, with a recent reply at 2pm so easy to find on the thread list on page 2 right now.

    The NEWBIES thread tells you who to email the LBC response to, and what to put.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • An update 2 months on;

    Using examples from this forum I wrote a letter to P4 parking politely telling them to !!!!!! off, and have not heard from them since. Still ignoring the UKPC letters and intend on writing to them should they send an LBC. The advice in this forum is spot on!
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