EE Overselling Contract Issue

EnPointe

zagfles said:

Brie said:

In contradiction of the others (who may be correct in what they are saying) I would suggest a complaint being logged on behalf of the elderly individual to point out that it was a case of taking advantage of an elderly and vulnerable individual. 

Now your elderly granny (or whomever) might be completely on the ball for most things - politics, finances, the lineage in Wagnerian opera - but technology is a different game all together.  I'm reasonably bright and techy but it took me some time to get my head around "apps" simply because they were new to me and I didn't know what was actually being talked about particularly when I made the leap from a stupid to a smart phone.  Most companies have some sort of "vulnerable customer" team that would see the sense of correcting the salesperson's overly optimistic patter and ensure there's no bad publicity about how granny has been been financially disadvantaged by corporate greed.  

Agreed. This is worse than PPI misselling, at least most people can understand the concept of PPI, probably better than understanding how much data they need on their mobile.

I'd suggest putting in a complaint, maybe in person in the shop, preferably when there's other people in they're trying to sell to. If that doesn't work, most major newspapers have a financial/consumer advice section where they answer readers' questions and often take up issues, funny how companies often back down when a financial journalist shames them into it, regardless of the legalities. Virtually nobody needs 164GB, it's a ridiculous amount. Most normal users shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 GB a month!

while I'd agree with  your assertion that 100 GB + a month is  perhaps excessive unless it is sole source of  connectivity plenty of people use tens of gigabytes a month for various reasons.

a typical month  seems me use 20 -30 GB and a heavy month  ( with a week or more away from home etc)  can be 40 -50 GB

zagfles

EnPointe said:

zagfles said:

Brie said:

In contradiction of the others (who may be correct in what they are saying) I would suggest a complaint being logged on behalf of the elderly individual to point out that it was a case of taking advantage of an elderly and vulnerable individual. 

Now your elderly granny (or whomever) might be completely on the ball for most things - politics, finances, the lineage in Wagnerian opera - but technology is a different game all together.  I'm reasonably bright and techy but it took me some time to get my head around "apps" simply because they were new to me and I didn't know what was actually being talked about particularly when I made the leap from a stupid to a smart phone.  Most companies have some sort of "vulnerable customer" team that would see the sense of correcting the salesperson's overly optimistic patter and ensure there's no bad publicity about how granny has been been financially disadvantaged by corporate greed.  

Agreed. This is worse than PPI misselling, at least most people can understand the concept of PPI, probably better than understanding how much data they need on their mobile.

I'd suggest putting in a complaint, maybe in person in the shop, preferably when there's other people in they're trying to sell to. If that doesn't work, most major newspapers have a financial/consumer advice section where they answer readers' questions and often take up issues, funny how companies often back down when a financial journalist shames them into it, regardless of the legalities. Virtually nobody needs 164GB, it's a ridiculous amount. Most normal users shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 GB a month!

while I'd agree with  your assertion that 100 GB + a month is  perhaps excessive unless it is sole source of  connectivity plenty of people use tens of gigabytes a month for various reasons.

a typical month  seems me use 20 -30 GB and a heavy month  ( with a week or more away from home etc)  can be 40 -50 GB

Really? What on? Do you stream films, watch TV etc on mobile data?

I'm away a lot too and I use mobile data for stuff like google maps, translation apps, messaging apps, public transport apps, quick googles for stuff, etc, and in a typical week away I might use 300-500MB. I've never used more than 3GB a month, and that's without really thinking about usage of stuff I need to use while out and about. 

But I'd never scroll social media, or upload/download loads of pics/videos etc on mobile data. There's never any need, that sort of stuff can wait till I've got wifi.

Emmia

EnPointe said:

zagfles said:

Brie said:

In contradiction of the others (who may be correct in what they are saying) I would suggest a complaint being logged on behalf of the elderly individual to point out that it was a case of taking advantage of an elderly and vulnerable individual. 

Now your elderly granny (or whomever) might be completely on the ball for most things - politics, finances, the lineage in Wagnerian opera - but technology is a different game all together.  I'm reasonably bright and techy but it took me some time to get my head around "apps" simply because they were new to me and I didn't know what was actually being talked about particularly when I made the leap from a stupid to a smart phone.  Most companies have some sort of "vulnerable customer" team that would see the sense of correcting the salesperson's overly optimistic patter and ensure there's no bad publicity about how granny has been been financially disadvantaged by corporate greed.  

Agreed. This is worse than PPI misselling, at least most people can understand the concept of PPI, probably better than understanding how much data they need on their mobile.

I'd suggest putting in a complaint, maybe in person in the shop, preferably when there's other people in they're trying to sell to. If that doesn't work, most major newspapers have a financial/consumer advice section where they answer readers' questions and often take up issues, funny how companies often back down when a financial journalist shames them into it, regardless of the legalities. Virtually nobody needs 164GB, it's a ridiculous amount. Most normal users shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 GB a month!

while I'd agree with  your assertion that 100 GB + a month is  perhaps excessive unless it is sole source of  connectivity plenty of people use tens of gigabytes a month for various reasons.

a typical month  seems me use 20 -30 GB and a heavy month  ( with a week or more away from home etc)  can be 40 -50 GB

I don't use quite this much, but I'm usually over 4GB... I have an unlimited data contract though, with EU roaming included (as I've had it for many years).

Grumpy_chap

GenericDad said:

Hi all,

An elderly family member has been oversold a mobile phone contract which is due to expire in 7 months time. I would estimate they use 5GB of data per month but they were up-sold a contract in the store for 164GB!! They do not understand data allowances or requirements so as a long term EE customer, relied on EE to view their historical data usage and make recommendations.
Now, unless she she is about to take up aggressive gaming and streaming, there is no legitimate reason they needed this contract.

Is there any way EE can be challenged or recompense made for what is clearly an over sell?

Thank you for your help

It is quite late, several months into the contract, to be querying possible incorrect selection on the tariff.

It also seems as though the concern is based around assumptions at this stage "estimate they use 5GB" is not a sound basis to make an assessment against.  The first thing to do would be to check how much data the individual actually uses - it is normally available by looking at monthly bills and it would be necessary to go back over several bills to see the typical data use.

Once the facts about data consumption are known, it is possible to review whether the contract is suitable.  
Then, even if it is a contract with far more data than required, what was the financial impact of the bigger contract versus a contract with suitable amounts of data?  Sometimes, the difference in monthly cost can be quite minimal, especially if wrapped up with a high-spec phone.
Then, what were the conversations when the contract was taken out?  Did the individual say something to the effect of "I just want to know I have a fixed monthly cost that I will never exceed?"
Then, what would the grounds be for a complaint?  If the individual was fit enough to get to the retail store and competent enough to take out a contract without assistance, why are they suddenly vulnerable now that you have seen their agreement?  Does the individual usually manage their own affairs, or is a PoA in place and in use?  Just because a decision is not what we would have taken, does not make the decision daft or wrong.

I don't think it is appropriate to dismiss the more senior members of society as obviously only needing less data.  This is a very varied thing:

zagfles said:

Most normal users shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 GB a month!

EnPointe said:

plenty of people use tens of gigabytes a month for various reasons.

a typical month  seems me use 20 -30 GB and a heavy month  ( with a week or more away from home etc)  can be 40 -50 GB

zagfles said:

I've never used more than 3GB a month

Emmia said:

I'm usually over 4GB... 

We should not assume that our own data use is "typical".

• My Wife uses around 2 GB per month
• I use around 10GB
• My Mum uses far more than me.

My use includes some tethering for work while away from home but most connectivity is using the computer and  fixed line broadband.
My Wife's use is less because she just do social phone use, most connectivity using the computer and never tethers.
My Mum's use is far higher because she ditched the computer to all intents and uses her iPhone for everything, including quite a lot of video calls to my Brother in Australia.

The people in the shop, similarly, cannot make assumptions.  They can ( and may have ) checked past data use if previously with EE.  The customer may also ask for "unlimited" and be very persistent even if the store staff say that is not what is needed.

I think the OP needs to establish all the facts first and then seek either an adjustment to a lower tariff for the remainder of this contract and / or a goodwill gesture from EE.
PLUS, the OP needs to diarise the end of the contract to be ready to assist the relative with the next contract.

zagfles

Grumpy_chap said:

GenericDad said:

Hi all,

An elderly family member has been oversold a mobile phone contract which is due to expire in 7 months time. I would estimate they use 5GB of data per month but they were up-sold a contract in the store for 164GB!! They do not understand data allowances or requirements so as a long term EE customer, relied on EE to view their historical data usage and make recommendations.
Now, unless she she is about to take up aggressive gaming and streaming, there is no legitimate reason they needed this contract.

Is there any way EE can be challenged or recompense made for what is clearly an over sell?

Thank you for your help

It is quite late, several months into the contract, to be querying possible incorrect selection on the tariff.

It also seems as though the concern is based around assumptions at this stage "estimate they use 5GB" is not a sound basis to make an assessment against.  The first thing to do would be to check how much data the individual actually uses - it is normally available by looking at monthly bills and it would be necessary to go back over several bills to see the typical data use.

Once the facts about data consumption are known, it is possible to review whether the contract is suitable.  
Then, even if it is a contract with far more data than required, what was the financial impact of the bigger contract versus a contract with suitable amounts of data?  Sometimes, the difference in monthly cost can be quite minimal, especially if wrapped up with a high-spec phone.
Then, what were the conversations when the contract was taken out?  Did the individual say something to the effect of "I just want to know I have a fixed monthly cost that I will never exceed?"
Then, what would the grounds be for a complaint?  If the individual was fit enough to get to the retail store and competent enough to take out a contract without assistance, why are they suddenly vulnerable now that you have seen their agreement?  Does the individual usually manage their own affairs, or is a PoA in place and in use?  Just because a decision is not what we would have taken, does not make the decision daft or wrong.

I don't think it is appropriate to dismiss the more senior members of society as obviously only needing less data.  This is a very varied thing:

zagfles said:

Most normal users shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 GB a month!

EnPointe said:

plenty of people use tens of gigabytes a month for various reasons.

a typical month  seems me use 20 -30 GB and a heavy month  ( with a week or more away from home etc)  can be 40 -50 GB

zagfles said:

I've never used more than 3GB a month

Emmia said:

I'm usually over 4GB... 

We should not assume that our own data use is "typical".

• My Wife uses around 2 GB per month
• I use around 10GB
• My Mum uses far more than me.

My use includes some tethering for work while away from home but most connectivity is using the computer and  fixed line broadband.
My Wife's use is less because she just do social phone use, most connectivity using the computer and never tethers.
My Mum's use is far higher because she ditched the computer to all intents and uses her iPhone for everything, including quite a lot of video calls to my Brother in Australia.

The people in the shop, similarly, cannot make assumptions.  They can ( and may have ) checked past data use if previously with EE.  The customer may also ask for "unlimited" and be very persistent even if the store staff say that is not what is needed.

I think the OP needs to establish all the facts first and then seek either an adjustment to a lower tariff for the remainder of this contract and / or a goodwill gesture from EE.
PLUS, the OP needs to diarise the end of the contract to be ready to assist the relative with the next contract.

I don't think anyway was assuming they need less data because they're old or vunerable, just that they may be less able to understand how much data they need. A lot of people don't, not just the old and vunerable.

But there has to be a specific reason for needing that sort of amount of data. Perhaps they have no broadband at home, perhaps they often stay in hotels which have no wifi and need to tether for work etc. But it doesn't seem that sort of thing applies to the OP's relative.

If they wanted a known fixed cost they won't exceed, then PAYG is the obvious answer. Why have a contract? Even an unlimited data package won't guarantee a fixed cost (premium rate numbers/texts, roaming etc).

Grumpy_chap

I just looked at the EE website and I had not realised how varied their tariffs can be.
The OP mentioned different amounts of data, but it is also possible to have different speeds. 
More data faster is not linearly linked to monthly cost.

If I take out an EE monthly contract on 24-month term this evening, I can select:

• 5GB at 10 Mbps at £17
• 25GB at 100 Mbps at £16

It could be equally possible that the "upsell" for the OP's relative was equally positioned at the time.