Paying outside the 10 minutes grace period

Christmasshopper2

Please help! I have spent the last 8 hours reading the threads and can’t find the answer. 

The car was parked on a private car park at the back of a row of shops which the driver has used many times before. The driver used the Pay and Park app to book 2 hours parking. While the driver was shopping, they checked the app to see how much time was left and if the needed to add another hour. At this point the driver noticed that the payment hadn’t gone through and rectified this immediately. The app then showed that the valid parking period was from the time the payment processed for a further 2 hours, not from the time the booking began. The driver left the car park a short time later. They paid for 2 hours and were parked for less than this. 

The keeper has received a PCN stating Payment not made in accordance with notified terms.
After reading hundreds of posts on here it seems to me that the only way of not having to pay this is if the PCN was issued incorrectly. Please can someone advise me?  I am struggling to understand a lot of the legal jargon. 

Christmasshopper2

I have contacted the shop and been told that even the shop staff don’t use the car park anymore, even though they have allocated spaces because they can’t find out who owns the car park, and they have no way of getting PCN’s cancelled. 

Fruitcake

What is the name of the PPC please?

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before.

Plan A is always a complaint from the registered keeper to the landowner and the keepers MP. 

This post by forum regular @Umkomaas might help to find the landowner, but don't pay for a Land Registry search unless you get a court claim.

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

Plan B is an appeal to the PPC using the template in blue text from the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES, which is always the first port of call when someone gets a PCN.

Complaints and appeals should be done by the keeper, not the driver, who are two different people as far as the law is concerned.

Get photos of the site and signage in readiness. 

Check the NTK to see if is PoFA compliant and capable of holding the keeper liable. Show us a redacted copy of the NTK if your unsure, but leave dates and location showing.

Park elsewhere in future. If that means you have to shop elsewhere as well, then so be it.

Christmasshopper2

The parking company is Starpark. That is displayed on the notices in the car park.
The PCN was issued by Civil Enforcement.
The Location was Greyfriars Car Park, Bedford. 

Please don’t hate on me, but I think I have almost decided to pay the £60 within the fourteen days instead of risking it going up to £100. I spent last night unable to sleep because I was worried about it. I have been reading the threads since 5am this morning and still don’t feel confident about it. I understand that I am being scammed, and I am incredibly miffed to be charged £60 for less than 2 hours parking that I paid for on the day. However, I am suffering from cancer fatigue and my energy and cognitive abilities are compromised. So for the sake of my own wellbeing I think working an extra shift next week and paying the £60 is probably my best option. 

Thank you @Fruitcake for responding to my post. I really appreciate it. I am going to take the time to try to learn how to fight these scammers in case I am ever in the same situation again. But, I am afraid, I only have the capacity to do it at my own pace at the moment, which I guess is what the scammers rely on. 

Meanwhile, I am going to stop shopping in Bedford and stick to out of town retail parks with free parking, or online shopping from the comfort of my sofa.
Good luck to all who are fighting unfair charges, and massive thanks to everyone who helps them. 

Fruitcake

Before you decide to support the unregulated parking industry referred to by UK MPs as rogues, scammers, and bloodsuckers, at least check to see if the NTK is or is not PoFA compliant. If it is not, then the keeper cannot be held liable for payment.

According to Google Streetview, three years ago the car park was council owned. If it still is, and they have employed a PPC, then it cannot be operated as if it was a private car park, and ANPR scameras should not be used.
I would start by asking the council if they still own it before deciding what to do.

Bedford, England - Google Maps

Christmasshopper2

I don’t know how to redact the photo and which bits I need to redact. Could you advise me please?

Fruitcake

Christmasshopper2 said:

I don’t know how to redact the photo and which bits I need to redact. Could you advise me please?

If you have a Windows PC, you can redact images in Paint 3D. Other editing programmes may be available. Redact personal information including name, address, VRM, and PCN number, but leave dates and location and reason for issue showing.

If you are unable to do that, you can send images of both sides of the NTK to me using the Notification (envelope) button, and I will redact them for you.
I'm sure the regulars will vouchsafe me.

KeithP

Fruitcake said:
I'm sure the regulars will vouchsafe me.

Well I will for a start.  

Christmasshopper2

I sent it. Thank you very much. 

I just looked on Google maps and I believe the street address of the car park is slightly wrong on the PCN. Also the postcode may be wrong.

Christmasshopper2

Fruitcake said:

Christmasshopper2 said:

I don’t know how to redact the photo and which bits I need to redact. Could you advise me please?

If you have a Windows PC, you can redact images in Paint 3D. Other editing programmes may be available. Redact personal information including name, address, VRM, and PCN number, but leave dates and location and reason for issue showing.

If you are unable to do that, you can send images of both sides of the NTK to me using the Notification (envelope) button, and I will redact them for you.
I'm sure the regulars will vouchsafe me.

I don’t have a computer, only a phone. 

KeithP

Christmasshopper2 said:

I sent it.

Sent what?