Wills & Probate

warrior1960

Someone close to us made a will many years ago since which his circumstances have so drastically changed, he has long since been without any assets, such as a property. His savings and current account are well below what I understand is the minimum to go through probate. This being so, would his adult children still have to invoke the will when he dies (i.e notify the solicitors he did the will through), even though they have power of attorney? Or can the siblings just divide what sums are remaining between them without reference to the will when he dies?

And speaking of probate, is the minimum still £20k before that has to be applied for if no other assets?

Olinda99

a will is still valid unless revoked or replaced by a new will

therefore the executor(s) should follow the requirements of the will

that said, once the beneficiers have received their inheritance, they are free to do what they like with it including dividing it up as they wish

p00hsticks

Who are the named executors ?
If it is the solicitors you refer to who drew up the will, then when the time comes the family should ask them to renounce their executorship to save a bit of money, and deal with the estate themselves ,although they are still legally obliged to follow the terms of the will.

I'm not aware of any hard and fast £20k limit - different financial institutions impose different limits on how much they will release to executors / beneficiaries without a grant of probate. I think the lowest commonly mentioned here is NS&I who want to see a grant for anything over £5k.   And I believe probate is always required, at least in England and Wales,  to be able to sell or transfer any Stocks or Shares owned by the deceased. 

Keep_pedalling

There is no fixed value at which probate needs to be applied for. It all depends on whether there are any assets that can’t be released without it. Banks set their own levels for this and can be as much as £50k.

Savvy_Sue

If he retains capacity, are you able to suggest to him that he reviews his will to ensure it still does what it needs to do? 

Obviously if it divides his estate (whatever it consists of) evenly between his chosen beneficiaries it's not an issue, but if he leaves a house he no longer owns to one person, or the contents of a bank account which is pretty much empty to another, it could become difficult. 

warrior1960

Thanks for your comments. Some food for thought. Does having power of attorney make any difference after the death of the person in question, such as using funds from the donor's accounts to pay funeral expenses, outstanding care home fees etc?

43722

I thought PoA ends with the death of the individual concerned.

warrior1960

You may be right. I'll look into that as I'm wondering if the donor's accounts get frozen when notified of death or can they still be used to pay off liabilities such as funeral expenses and o/s bills? Or maybe those liabilities need to be anticipated before death and the funds already being put in place ready for use when the time arises. A few things to think through. Thanks again 

Lorian

The accounts do get frozen but they will usually pay a funeral directors bill on presentation if there is sufficient funds.

The POA ceases at the point of death and any use of it must cease.

And the will absolutely has to be followed, a job for whoever is named executor which may be the solicitors 

Keep_pedalling

warrior1960 said:

You may be right. I'll look into that as I'm wondering if the donor's accounts get frozen when notified of death or can they still be used to pay off liabilities such as funeral expenses and o/s bills? Or maybe those liabilities need to be anticipated before death and the funds already being put in place ready for use when the time arises. A few things to think through. Thanks again 

They will be frozen but unless probate is required (unlikely on a small estate) you can usually close them and have the money transferred to the executor in quite a short time. Where probate is required banks will pay a FD directly from the frozen account. 

RAS

Accounts will be frozen on death. Funeral costs will be claimed by the funeral directors directly from the banks, proving there is enough in the accounts

Who are the executors? If it is the solicitors, they are likely to want to renounce if the remaining assets make it unviable financially. 

Utilities accept that they have to wait. Watch out for unpaid bills for care and for benefits revision if they were paid for periods after the person died.

Otherwise, the will is followed but probate may not be necessary. Even NS&I sometimes release sums over £5k without probate, but sometimes insist. 

So the executor(s) or administrators (usually one of the beneficiaries takes over) draw in the assets after funeral costs are paid, checks for debts, and then pays out in line with the will. So if the will says children and nephew will get equal shares, the administrator has to share equally with them all, regardless of the fact that one sibling is estranged for example.