Smart parking case - London - Update 2: Successfully cancelled PCN

anonuser23

Dear all, thank you for taking the time to read my case and for any advice you can give.

Parking charge contravention occurred on 05/09/2023
Smart parking charge notice was issued on 07/10/2023

The charge notice is addressed to the keeper of the vehicle who was NOT the driver on that day (I was).

I took the car to a business centre in greater london to a car garage for service.  Dropped off car for a 09:00 appointment.  Car garage told me to come back at 17:00 to pick up car, which I did.  Smart parking is obviously claiming for an overstay on the 2 hour limit for the business site.

I will try to summarise key points below:

1. PCN addressed to vehicle owner who was not the driver.
2. No evidence of parking given in PCN, only entry and exit.
3. No windscreen ticket.
4. I was a customer of the car garage - the car was not parked in smart parking bay, but spent all day being serviced in the car garage.
5. PCN letter issued more than 14 days after contravention.  In fact more than 28 days after contravention (not sure if this useful based on reading other cases on here).
6. PCN letter has an issue date, but no postage date?
7. A serious mitigating circumstance is that the keeper was out of the country for most of October and the original PCN was missed.
   
8. Because of point 6. the PCN is being responded to after the 28 day deadline.

The following events have occurred since the above:

• I (the driver) have gone back to talk to the car garage staff.  They said they normally put driver details into a validation system, but they did not do that for me originally. I was completely unaware. 
• They informed me that they can submit a cancellation request.  The PCN details were given to the staff, and I have email confirming they have submitted this cancellation request.
  

What else have I done:

• I have also submitted an appeal on the smart parking website, stating that I was a customer, why the keeper missed the original letter, and the car garage staff have submitted a cancellation request.
• I have received a confirmation from their online system they received the appeal.  Potential 35 day wait.

The evidence I have submitted is as follows:

• Receipts and bank statements, showing I was a customer of the car garage on site.
• Photos showing the sign asking customers to validate their parking is very small and located a long distance from entrance, easily missed.
• A picture of the parking bays outside the car garage showing no smart parking signs, or reminders to validate parking.

The other major problem is that a debt recovery plus letter has arrived to the vehicle keeper. It seems from advice on this forum I can ignore these, but I may have made a mistake in briefly calling them.  This is because I was stressed with the deadline they (DRP) had given of 23/11/2023, and I wanted to tell them that an appeal to the PCN had been submitted.  They lady on the phone said that the smart parking appeal was irrelevant and they won't deal with me anymore.  Is that true?

I'm also not sure about where the original PCN from smart parking stands wrt POFA 2012 rulings?

Overall I feel there are serious mitigating circumstances and legitimate grounds for appeal.  But I'm stressed because it's gone to the DRP stage.  Any advice welcome, hope the above is clear.

Thank you.

UPDATE:
Just an update to this case that DRP are now sending a letter stating the case has moved to pre-legal action, with a final seven day deadline to pay.

They also state that 'the right to appeal the ticket has now passed'.  This is really annoying because Smart parking has not responded to my appeal submitted via their website.  And a cancellation request for this PCN has also been submitted by the business site owner, of which I have proof.

What are the next steps to take?

Coupon-mad

The keeper can't appeal now but should respond to Smart Parking anyway, telling them to cease and desist processing his data because he was not the driver and Smart Parking didn't use the POFA.

Therefore, they have no lawful excuse to continue to contact him because he declines to name the driver, and cannot be held liable.  Should they continue to harass him with debt collector drivel, he will either issue a court claim or a counterclaim for harassment and damages for distress arising as a result of misuse of DVLA data, citing cases of similar fact which have succeeded.

He could also copy in DR Plus:

info@drpl.co.uk

(stating their long reference number as well as PCN and VRM numbers).

YOU (driver) should not be responding AT ALL.

anonuser23

Coupon-mad said:

The keeper can't appeal now but should respond to Smart Parking anyway, telling them to cease and desist processing his data because he was not the driver and Smart Parking didn't use the POFA.

Therefore, they have no lawful excuse to continue to contact him because he declines to name the driver, and cannot be held liable.  Should they continue to harass him with debt collector drivel, he will either issue a court claim or a counterclaim for harassment and damages for distress arising as a result of misuse of DVLA data, citing cases of similar fact which have succeeded.

He could also copy in DR Plus:

info@drpl.co.uk

(stating their long reference number as well as PCN and VRM numbers).

YOU (driver) should not be responding AT ALL.

Thank you Coupon-mad.

I'm bit confused how to use the POFA appeal.  Do I just state they've failed to comply with POFA 2012 schedule 4, and failed to deliver the PCN within 14 days?  Should I send through their appeal portal or direct email communication to smart parking (with maybe DRP cc'd)?

The fact the car garage have requested a cancellation and I reiterated this in the initial appeal have an effect?  I'm also unsure how long to wait for a response from them on the appeal already submitted, and if this POFA appeal should go in now, or as a response?

Thanks.

Coupon-mad

What appeal already submitted?

By you as the driver, to Smart?

anonuser23

Coupon-mad said:

What appeal already submitted?

By you as the driver, to Smart?

As I stated in my OP, I submitted an appeal through their website with supporting evidence.  I got an acknowledgement they received it, but this was an automated reply - no idea if they are actually adjudicating on this.

I didn't make it obvious it was from the driver though.

UncleThomasCobley

anonuser23 said:

Should I send through their appeal portal or direct email communication to smart parking (with maybe DRP cc'd)?

You should treat DRP in exactly the same way you would treat a pile of steaming dog poo in the street. You do not, ever, contact the likes of DRP who are as intellectually malnourished as said dog poo. They are not a party to the alleged contract you are supposed to have breached and have no skin in the game. They are purely contracted to scare low hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying into the scam.

Aliengoatboy

I have contacted Citizens Advice   They have said that people have no been taken to court and have lost , so now that’s people are taking more people to court .

Aliengoatboy

Sorry wrong thread 

Le_Kirk

Aliengoatboy said:

I have contacted Citizens Advice   They have said that people have no been taken to court and have lost , so now that’s people are taking more people to court .

Aliengoatboy said:

Sorry wrong thread 

Don't waste your time with Citizens Advice; they may be good at some stuff but not parking issues. I see you posted on wrong thread but hopefully will come back here to read this comment. 

Coupon-mad

Aliengoatboy said:

I have contacted Citizens Advice   They have said that people have no been taken to court and have lost , so now that’s people are taking more people to court .

You didn't ask CAB about private parking did you? They are terrible.

anonuser23

UncleThomasCobley said:

anonuser23 said:

Should I send through their appeal portal or direct email communication to smart parking (with maybe DRP cc'd)?

You should treat DRP in exactly the same way you would treat a pile of steaming dog poo in the street. You do not, ever, contact the likes of DRP who are as intellectually malnourished as said dog poo. They are not a party to the alleged contract you are supposed to have breached and have no skin in the game. They are purely contracted to scare low hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying into the scam.

Thanks 'Cobley.  I will ignore the DRP letters as many have stated on these forums.  Yes they are scare mongering so-and-so's.

I think at the moment everything hinges on if the cancellation request by the business site has been picked up by smart parking.  Still no response from them.  The appeal I submitted through their website had proof of being a customer, so that along with the cancellation request proof should be successful.  But no idea how long they take to reply?

Thanks again all.