Total car parks, 2 PCNs

Ab93

Hello again guys, 

Just wanted to thank everyone here for their helpful advice and time so far in an ongoing separate matter and thanks for any helpful advice and time in advance for the following! 

So I have recently got 2 PCNs from ‘total car parks’ for parking at a big retail car park very close to where I live and have regularly used this car park over the years I have lived there as me and flatmate had to share a permit at home. I was unaware that new signs must have gone up and the car park had changed hands or similar so when I received the first I waited before replying because I thought another 10 could be on their way in the post but I did only receive one more. 

In the pictures taken it looks like the car is parked in the same space although one is in the day and one at night so I have asked if they can prove that the car has moved in this period of time, they claim to have ANPR cameras on site but obviously don’t or I would have more PCNs. 

No ticket on windscreen, straight to notice to keeper PCN(s). I did say no assumptions can be drawn on the driver etc which has given more time. 

I also highlighted that they were aware of the second ‘offence’ before issuing the first so purposely waited to issue the second in an attempt to double their money. 

1st 

Observed: 28/10

Issued: 02/11

2nd

Observed: 01/11

Issued: 07/11

Begrudgingly, I offered to settle at the lower rate (£60 instead of £100) on the condition that it would cover both instances, as from the evidence they have provided so far only one ‘offence/breach’ has been committed. They declined (of course). I asked for a breakdown of how they got to that amount, they failed to provide, but did send me a nice copy and paste from beavis case basically justifying £100 per charge. 

What next? 

Thanks again

UncleThomasCobley

Why did you admit liability by offering to pay anything? Did you do so "without prejudice"?

Coupon-mad

I'd reply once more (in December, after a month) retracting your offer to settle and stating that there was no admission of liability and if they try a court claim you will defend in full.  And if they think they have a case, get on with it before the new year and do not add the greedy fake £70 'fee' nor pass the case to debt collectors, who will be ignored. End it:

Put up or shut up.

Ab93

All I have admitted so far is being the vehicles keeper, and asked what evidence they have that I should be paying them for 2 tickets rather than one. I am undeniably the keeper so was just trying to see what they have their side and make it all go away for £60, they are still asking for details of the driver etc. sorry hope that helps 

thanks 

Coupon-mad

Do what I said above.

Or try POPLA. We can advise.

And please can we see a picture of the front and back of the NTKs? Is the wording on one any different than the other?

Cover your car images and VRM and the PCN number and your name/address.

Leave all dates visible.  And the back of one of them, please (if exact match words).

Ab93

Coupon-mad said:

I'd reply once more (in December, after a month) retracting your offer to settle and stating that there was no admission of liability and if they try a court claim you will defend in full.  And if they think they have a case, get on with it before the new year and do not add the greedy fake £70 'fee' nor pass the case to debt collectors, who will be ignored. End it:

Put up or shut up.

I love this. Thank you I will stick to this now. 

Knowing that they wouldn’t accept my offer I have made the same offer throughout and even said you can have it before the end of the day if you accept, so it cannot be claimed I have been uncooperative and I have offered to pay as early as possible but clearly their greed has made them push their luck. 

Ab93

They are adamant they have followed BPA and POPLA rules to the letter, I prefer your approach of put up or shut up if I’m honest but I am aware you all know better than I do, I’ll get the pictures on here later as best I can 

Thanks again

Coupon-mad

Thanks. I'd be surprised if both are POFA.

Ab93

Until I post the pictures here is a copy of one of the emails they sent me they seem pretty adamant:

Thank you for your Appeal.

 

You have raised several points in your Appeal which we will answer in due course if we decline your Appeal.

 

You will need to Appeal each Parking Charge Notice received individually following the instructions given on the Notice to Keeper letter.

 

You also explained in your Appeal that you are the keeper of the vehicle but you were not the driver of the vehicle and we cannot assume you were the driver of the vehicle.

 

It is true we cannot assume you were the driver, however as our Notice to Keeper letter complied with the requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 to enable us to hold you liable for the payment of the unpaid Parking Charge Notice if we are not informed of the details of the driver of the vehicle within 29 days of the issue date of the Notice to Keeper letter, we reserve the right to hold you liable for payment if you do not inform us of the name and serviceable address of the driver of the vehicle.

 

Please refer back to our Notice to Keeper letter you received which clearly informs you of this information.

 

We have placed your Appeal on hold until XDecember 2023, as that is when the aforementioned 29 day period is over for you to provide us with the details of the driver of the vehicle, however please be aware that in the event we do not receive the details of the driver of the vehicle to enable us to transfer liability of the Parking Charge Notice to them, we will decline the Appeal and you as the registered keeper of the vehicle will remain liable for payment of the unpaid Parking Charge Notice, as we would have complied with the requirements of POFA 2012 to be able to do so.

 

Kind regards,

KeithP

Ignore that and wait patiently for your appeal rejection and a PoPLA code.

Ab93

Photos as requested hopefully clear enough thanks again