Benefit system seems to recognize only the existence of fully healthy and fully disabled people

gilbutre

I can't get PIP because I'm not disabled in a way that would prevent me from eating/shopping/etc by myself (I looked into the PIP test, I don't match any of the criteria).

Yet I cannot work full-time and support myself either because I'm too sick for that.

The benefit system seems to recognize only either fully healthy people or fully disabled people (who can't eat/etc by themselves) while being blind to anything in between - which I assume includes hundreds of thousands of people in the UK.

Am I missing something or is this system pretty dysfunctional in this regard?

DullGreyGuy

What do you want someone to say? Hope you get sicker soon so you can no longer look after yourself and then get PIP?

PIP is for something specific, blind person allowance is for something specific, someone may qualify for none, one or more of specific benefits. 

Have you gone through a calculator like EntitledTo to check if you are entitled to anything beyond what you may be claiming already?

swingaloo

You have 3 threads running all about the same thing. What different answers are you expecting to get?

Brie

Have you applied for PIP and been rejected or simply not applied because you think you won't get anything?  If you talk to someone who knows about PIP applications they may be able to help. 

Too often people are rejected because they will answer questions honestly but not fully explain things in a way that a PIP assessor will expect.  If you say "Yes I can run for the bus" then you will likely be rejected.  But if you say "yes I can run for the bus but if I do I'll be flat on my back for the next 2 weeks" that puts your situation into context.  

Citizen's Advice are great for PIP applications and dealing with contesting rejections.  Alternatively there may be a Liveability type group or local disability team that might assist.   If you do have a certain condition that limits your ability to work then look for whatever group covers that condition.  

Muttleythefrog

You got excellent advice in your last thread earlier in the year. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve to be honest. Yes the criteria for PIP relates to various activities of daily life including mobilising but it's not a comprehensive list and so it is possible people can be significantly disabled in daily life and yes not be entitled to PIP. However it certainly is not clear that you do not meet entitlement criteria. Similarly for 'sickness benefit' i.e. ESA or U/C with health related element the criteria is not necessarily comprehensive and as per PIP subject to change and reinterpretation. 

I disagree with "The benefit system seems to recognize only either fully healthy people or fully disabled people" as clearly disablements are measured to degree in many ways... for example someone may require prompting to perform an activity (regarded typically as low level disability) whereas another may be deemed incapable of performing it reliably with or without help most of the time (more severe disability). The fact that points are awarded with significant variance for each activity looked at is telling you disablement is not considered at only extremes - could it be that you are thinking of such in this way?

Please revisit the following thread and if you are sure you will not qualify for PIP (including after consideration of the reliability test for each activity which you claim you can perform despite chronic fatigue) then you need to take this matter to your MP as really you seem to want political change to criteria/benefits.  https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6424556/can-you-get-pip-if-you-suffer-from-a-chronic-condition-preventing-you-from-working-full-time/p1

poppy12345

You don't need to be bed bound and unable to eat, speak, dress, wash, go out, cook etc etc to be entitled to PIP. I can do all of the PIP activities but i can't do the repeatedily, in a reasonable time and to an acceptable standard. This means i can't do them at all. (some of them)

The PIP self test is extremely unreliable and shouldn't be used unless you fully understand the descriptors and what they mean, few people do. It's one link i will never ever refer anyone to.

Try starting here.. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#applying-the-criteria it's a lot to read but well worth doing so to give yourself a better understanding of what it's all about.

Edit to add, i see that above link was posted in your previous thread back in Feb 2023, did you actually read that link? Thread here. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6424556/can-you-get-pip-if-you-suffer-from-a-chronic-condition-preventing-you-from-working-full-time/p1

Spoonie_Turtle

I fully agree with the title - there are loads of 'in betweeners' who fall through the cracks, and austerity has made sure even more people get left out of help they need over the years.  The system fails even people who do qualify, due to how badly it's all set up and administered.  Edit: and this is a stark reflection of society in general that sees disability as a binary: thinking people are either fully healthy, or disabled to the point of being incapable of anything.  Of course the reality is completely different, illness and disability are a spectrum (inviting dynamic disabilities that fluctuate), but much of society doesn't let facts get in the way of ignorance and stereotypes.

But complaining about it won't change anything.  You have a choice of either properly investigating for yourself and getting some help to see if you might actually qualify, or lobbying your MP and perhaps seeing if charities are campaigning for any change and getting behind that, or doing nothing, or just moaning about it which is equally as effective as doing nothing but with the 'bonus' of making yourself feel worse and everyone who hears/reads it.

I wouldn't normally be quite so blunt but people already gave reasonably comprehensive advice about this nine months ago; we can only try our best to help but we can only do so much, we can't force someone to help themselves.  And this forum is about helping people get what they're entitled to - and again I refer to your previous thread - not for discussions about benefit policy.

Alice_Holt

    Spoonie_Turtle said:

I fully agree with the title - there are loads of 'in betweeners' who fall through the cracks, and austerity has made sure even more people get left out of help they need over the years.  The system fails even people who do qualify, due to how badly it's all set up and administered.  Edit: and this is a stark reflection of society in general that sees disability as a binary: thinking people are either fully healthy, or disabled to the point of being incapable of anything.  Of course the reality is completely different, illness and disability are a spectrum (inviting dynamic disabilities that fluctuate), but much of society doesn't let facts get in the way of ignorance and stereotypes.

But complaining about it won't change anything.  You have a choice of either properly investigating for yourself and getting some help to see if you might actually qualify, or lobbying your MP and perhaps seeing if charities are campaigning for any change and getting behind that, or doing nothing, or just moaning about it which is equally as effective as doing nothing but with the 'bonus' of making yourself feel worse and everyone who hears/reads it.

I wouldn't normally be quite so blunt but people already gave reasonably comprehensive advice about this nine months ago; we can only try our best to help but we can only do so much, we can't force someone to help themselves.  And this forum is about helping people get what they're entitled to - and again I refer to your previous thread - not for discussions about benefit policy.

      Yes, it does appear that the OP received good comprehensive advice 9 months back, only to ignore it.
 https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6424556/can-you-get-pip-if-you-suffer-from-a-chronic-condition-preventing-you-from-working-full-time/p1


"I can't get PIP because I'm not disabled in a way that would prevent me from eating / shopping / etc by myself (I looked into the PIP test, I don't match any of the criteria)."

Shopping is not a PIP descriptor. Nowhere on the form are you asked if you can shop. Clearly the OP didn't take any notice of the advice given to him 9 months ago.


His earlier thread seems to have been a waste of everyone's time, as despite what the OP assets it's possible to receive PIP due to chronic fatigue (but often at appeal). At least one would have hoped that the replies to his earlier thread might have prompted the OP to seek further help from his local advice charity or look at the links provided, rather than just come back months later to moan based on his misunderstanding of the PIP criteria.  

I would disagree that PIP only recognises "the existence of fully healthy and fully disabled people". This misunderstands how the tests around 'reliably' and 'majority of days' should be applied as poppy has indicated.
Unfortunately, I fear, the OP's attitude may discourage others from applying and seeking help.   

GiroBoy

Possibly the new integrated assessment for PIP/ESA/UC will benefit someone in your situation.

Muttleythefrog

GiroBoy said:

Possibly the new integrated assessment for PIP/ESA/UC will benefit someone in your situation.

Would the contrary not be more likely... the government plan to eliminate the Work Capability Assessment (after tightening criteria!) and use PIP qualification as a driver for determining disablement for ESA/U-C....i.e. there would be no assessment for ESA/U-C. This is many years off and assumes different flavour governments will continue with such but the OP claims not to be eligible for PIP and if they are right (and they seem to ignore advice to check given how descriptors are applied) then they would not be considered to have disablement for work either.