Wrong item sent - buyer refuses to return it . Ebay

shahpur

A few weeks back, I accidentally sent two sets of guitar tuners to the same person due to printing out the same shipping label twice a couple of days apart . I've reached out to the recipient to retrieve the wrongly sent package  but they refuse unless I offer a discount on another set I'm selling. I have offered to send them a postage label or arrange royalmail to collect but they just keep demanding a discount before they send anything back. I'm uncertain about my options since they're unwilling to compromise, especially considering the distance between us (they're in Scotland, and I'm in Birmingham) means I cannot collect them myself. Any advice on how to proceed?

soolin

Your only option is small claims , and I suppose that depends on the sort of money you are talking about. 

challengedavid

not that i know what to do to resolve it, but what exactly did they say?
have they said theyare keeping it unless you give a discount?  or just hinted at it
what would the likes of currys do if they sent a duplicate? 

you could offer a discount upon return then cancel the new sale,and block them but thats not really right and would get you a negative feedback and an ebay strike?

GrubbyGirl_2

I'd be tempted to tell them that you intend to report to the police as a theft, see if that encourages them to send it back

Spoonie_Turtle

challengedavid said:

what would the likes of currys do if they sent a duplicate? 

A retailer like Currys would most likely send a return label (perhaps for it to be collected), which is what the OP has offered. 

With Currys of course they could then charge the buyer's card for the duplicate if it's not returned within X number of days, whereas the OP is unable to do that.

GDB2222

shahpur said:

A few weeks back, I accidentally sent two sets of guitar tuners to the same person due to printing out the same shipping label twice a couple of days apart . I've reached out to the recipient to retrieve the wrongly sent package  but they refuse unless I offer a discount on another set I'm selling. I have offered to send them a postage label or arrange royalmail to collect but they just keep demanding a discount before they send anything back. I'm uncertain about my options since they're unwilling to compromise, especially considering the distance between us (they're in Scotland, and I'm in Birmingham) means I cannot collect them myself. Any advice on how to proceed?

The buyer isn't behaving very well, but it's best to compromise. If you give the buyer the discount that they want, will you still at least break even on the new sale?  If so, there's not much lost. 

Better still, if you offer the buyer a discount on the item you sent in error, would it be any use to them as a spare? That would save you the cost of return postage, and if you do get it returned there's no guarantee the item will still be in pristine condition.

shahpur

challengedavid said:

not that i know what to do to resolve it, but what exactly did they say?
have they said theyare keeping it unless you give a discount?  or just hinted at it
what would the likes of currys do if they sent a duplicate? 

you could offer a discount upon return then cancel the new sale,and block them but thats not really right and would get you a negative feedback and an ebay strike?

they have just said unless I give them a discount on a couple of my items they refuse to post it back.  I think because it took me a week to track the parcel to their address they claimed it as their own and was shocked that I was able to track it .


 It is more the principle in that I have offered to arrange royalmail to collect the item ( and bring a label) and would have paid something towards their time  but it does not sit too well with me being blackmailed into offering a discount .

I 

Spoonie_Turtle

I honestly wouldn't even consider rewarding such bad behaviour like that.  Definitely report them to eBay if you haven't already, maybe even phone them up to explain and see what they say?  I don't know if it's possible they might be able to charge the buyer for the second item if they won't return it … I would think that's unlikely, but still worth seeing what they say anyway.

GDB2222

shahpur said:

challengedavid said:

not that i know what to do to resolve it, but what exactly did they say?
have they said theyare keeping it unless you give a discount?  or just hinted at it
what would the likes of currys do if they sent a duplicate? 

you could offer a discount upon return then cancel the new sale,and block them but thats not really right and would get you a negative feedback and an ebay strike?

they have just said unless I give them a discount on a couple of my items they refuse to post it back.  I think because it took me a week to track the parcel to their address they claimed it as their own and was shocked that I was able to track it .


 It is more the principle in that I have offered to arrange royalmail to collect the item ( and bring a label) and would have paid something towards their time  but it does not sit too well with me being blackmailed into offering a discount .

I 

Ah, a point of principle. 

Your buyers are clearly unprincipled, but I don’t think that you have any obligation to go out of your way to teach them morality.  You are in business. So, be pragmatic. 

GadgetGuru

I see a potential issue - so what if you promise the discount and he sends the duplicate item back. 
You then refuse the discount.
Buyer then contacts eBay to say he has returned the item to you for full refund, but you are not responding etc - eBay will assume the buyer has returned the item and will provide a full refund, no?

Are eBay aware of the situation as it stands? If not, may be an idea to speak to them and get them on board before you proceed......

Personally I would threaten to report as theft to begin with to see if he caves. 
Failing that, try the above......

GrubbyGirl_2

IftiBashir said:

I see a potential issue - so what if you promise the discount and he sends the duplicate item back. 
You then refuse the discount.
Buyer then contacts eBay to say he has returned the item to you for full refund, but you are not responding etc - eBay will assume the buyer has returned the item and will provide a full refund, no?

Are eBay aware of the situation as it stands? If not, may be an idea to speak to them and get them on board before you proceed......

Personally I would threaten to report as theft to begin with to see if he caves. 
Failing that, try the above......

As long as all the communication has been done through ebay messaging then ebay can see the truth

rollingmoon

I would go on eBay chat and run it past them, they will be able to see both sides' messages and might take a dim view of this individual's petty theft and subsequent attempts at extortion. 

You might not get the item back, but you might lose them their account, which wouldn't be undeserved.

DullGreyGuy

Spoonie_Turtle said:

challengedavid said:

what would the likes of currys do if they sent a duplicate? 

A retailer like Currys would most likely send a return label (perhaps for it to be collected), which is what the OP has offered. 

With Currys of course they could then charge the buyer's card for the duplicate if it's not returned within X number of days, whereas the OP is unable to do that.

They possibly could, if they've retained the card and its stated that this is one of the purposes of retaining the card and the card owner has authorised its use in this way.

Years back got a £100 off voucher from Currys, was supposed to be only usable on a minimum spend of £1,500 or such but discovered they'd messed up setting it up and no minimum actually applied. Wasn't a personalised code, and unfortunately not only I spotted the issue, but a few of us put orders through for £110 or such and obviously only paid £10. 

All of us got emails saying there was an error so the orders would be cancelled.

Two people, from my colleagues, still received their orders (I didn't )... even in that case Currys didn't make any attempt to recover the goods or monies. Guess when they messed up the voucher and also messed up cancelling the order they thought that was enough. 


As to the OP... it's up to you if you want to write it off, give the requested discount after the goods have been returned or send a letter before action and take them to court. You mention they are in Scotland, that could add more fun to the proceedings if you do decide to go the issuing route. 

GadgetGuru

What was the value of the item - that could determine whether you should bother chasing or just write it off?

Saying that, for me its down to the principle of the matter! Why should he get something for nothing, especially when he’s responding as he is!

JetpackVelociraptor

Send them a letter before action, registered post, explaining what you have offered (to pay for return postage and their time) and why (because an error with printing postage meant they received two items instead of just the 1 they paid for), give them a time period to return the duplicate item (say, 2 weeks?), and inform them that you'd prefer to resolve the situation amicably but would regrettably have to take further action under advisement should they not return the item. Send the same message via eBay as well so that eBay have a copy. Give them the two weeks then report it to Action Fraud, which will give you a crime reference number that you can use if this ends up causing more difficulty on eBay. Most people will react to the LBA by having a little panic and returning the item or paying for it, because most people who try this kind of thing on don't actually think of their actions as being dishonest or criminal and they think your only recourse is through eBay. Make sure the letter is formal and serious looking, you can use one of the many LBA templates available or try chatGPT with the prompt "write a letter before action, UK spelling only, formal tone, requesting the return of..." and then the details of the case. Use your company's letterhead and if you don't have one, make one.

In 17 years on eBay this strategy has proven extremely effective against people trying to abuse the returns system or otherwise extort discounts from me.

GDB2222

JetpackVelociraptor said:

Send them a letter before action, registered post, explaining what you have offered (to pay for return postage and their time) and why (because an error with printing postage meant they received two items instead of just the 1 they paid for), give them a time period to return the duplicate item (say, 2 weeks?), and inform them that you'd prefer to resolve the situation amicably but would regrettably have to take further action under advisement should they not return the item. Send the same message via eBay as well so that eBay have a copy. Give them the two weeks then report it to Action Fraud, which will give you a crime reference number that you can use if this ends up causing more difficulty on eBay. Most people will react to the LBA by having a little panic and returning the item or paying for it, because most people who try this kind of thing on don't actually think of their actions as being dishonest or criminal and they think your only recourse is through eBay. Make sure the letter is formal and serious looking, you can use one of the many LBA templates available or try chatGPT with the prompt "write a letter before action, UK spelling only, formal tone, requesting the return of..." and then the details of the case. Use your company's letterhead and if you don't have one, make one.

In 17 years on eBay this strategy has proven extremely effective against people trying to abuse the returns system or otherwise extort discounts from me.

The buyer is an involuntary bailee. Ask ChatGPT to explain the term to you, but the gist of it is that the buyer has no legal obligation to do anything except hold onto the item and wait for the OP to collect it. Since the OP is 100s of miles away, he's obviously not going to go round. 

The OP can arrange a courier, but he can't require the buyer to pack the item, or even to print out a label and stick it on. So, the OP will have to arrange a courier that will pick the item up, pack it if necessary, and label it. 

The buyer doesn't have to stay in, in order to make it easier for the courier to collect the item. The courier just has to take his chances, going back as often as necessary until he finally happens to catch the buyer in.

So, all the talk about letters before action and Action Fraud is irrelevant, and it may cross the line into criminal harassment. 

Oh, and Action Fraud are useless even in cases of actual fraud, so why on earth do you think that they will be any help where no fraud has taken place? 

JetpackVelociraptor

As an involuntary bailee, the buyer in this case would need to give OP a time limit to arrange collection of their goods and let OP know when they can be collected before they can do anything else. If the goods are large or awkward they could request a payment for storage. Once they've done that, they have the right to then to arrange for the goods to be disposed of or sold for fair market value after the time limit passes. They then are responsible for return of the monies or goods for potentially up to 6 years. They do not have any legal right to retain the item without payment without permitting it to be collected. OP has offered to send a courier with the returns label, and they've offered additional payment to cover the buyer's time. As far as I can tell from what OP has said, they're not asking the buyer to do anything other than wait for the item to be collected and hand it over to the courier if they're home when the courier comes.  If the buyer had an issue with availability, packaging or anything else surrounding said return they would have raised that already rather than attempting to extort money off an additional order.

Opinions can differ of course but I can't imagine how it would be harassment to send a single LBA to someone requesting return or payment for goods that they do not own and are refusing to allow you to collect. They're not accusing the buyer of fraud or threatening them with anything other than the potential recovery of the money or goods that they are owed.

And no, contrary to their name, action fraud do not generally take any action. They do however produce a crime reference number when you make a report, which can absolutely help the OP with any future eBay dispute relating to this issue. That would be the only reason to report it. To be clear, this isn't something OP should be threatening the buyer with. This is something they may wish to do to cover themselves against future issues the buyer may raise through eBay later on.

ChatGPT is fairly good at writing a formal-looking letter as it's a language model and has "seen" similar letters in the past, but I wouldn't trust it for legal advice. If anyone does need an explanation of what an involuntary bailee is, google is pretty helpful.

I'm just writing from my own experiences in business, with the odd person who see someone else's mistake as an opportunity they can exploit for profit. In my experience a well worded letter can put a stop to a whole range of unpleasant issues with people who, probably, don't intend to defraud or, maybe, genuinely misunderstand what their rights are.

@GDP2222 I just noticed you're the same poster suggesting that OP be pragmatic and acquiesce to the buyer's demands. While it may make sense in isolation, businesses need to be aware of more than just their profit on an individual transaction. They also need to protect their reputation and believe me when I say you do not want a reputation for being open to allowing buyers to set their own terms like this. Particularly given this buyer did not even bother to notify OP that they'd received a duplicate but instead waited for OP to chase it up. Having a reputation for quickly and fairly correcting any mistakes is far, far better for your business' longevity than having a reputation for giving in to buyers unreasonable demands.

Miser1964

Try a Letter Before Action, if no luck write off the loss against tax. And block buyer obviously. 

GDB2222

@JetpackVelociraptor Interesting. 

I'm not pushing the point about harassment, but it is a bit much to allege fraud in these circumstances. The OP sent the goods in error, and the buyer is being awkward about sending them back. That's not fraud. 

I agree that the buyer needs to be reasonable about allowing collection. However, it is reasonable to say 'I will be in for collection between 3 and 4pm on Tuesday", say. And, we all know perfectly well that most couriers don't operate to such tight timescales.

The OP might find a very expensive courier to work on that basis, but I suspect the item (a guitar tuner) only retails at £10, so it's probably barely worth picking up at all.

A LBA is fine, but it's important to be clear what you are suing about. The OP is asking the buyers to repack the goods and label them, and the buyer has no duty to do that. The OP is offering to pay the buyer for that service, but the buyer has no legal obligation to agree at any price. 

"businesses need to be aware of more than just their profit on an individual transaction. They also need to protect their reputation and believe me when I say you do not want a reputation for being open to allowing buyers to set their own terms like this."

This is absolutely true for big name brands, like Currys. But, I really don't think the OP is in that league.

If he acts pragmatically, he can end up with a satisfied customer, some positive feedback on ebay, and hopefully a modest profit on the extra items the customer wants to buy.  

Spoonie_Turtle

GDB2222 said:

The OP is asking the buyers to repack the goods and label them, and the buyer has no duty to do that. 

Actually Royal Mail can bring the label with them when they collect.  I can't imagine that putting the item back into the packaging in which it came is beyond the bounds of reason - although of course the buyer is clearly not a reasonable person, as evidenced by their attempted extortion.

GDB2222

Spoonie_Turtle said:

GDB2222 said:

The OP is asking the buyers to repack the goods and label them, and the buyer has no duty to do that. 

Actually Royal Mail can bring the label with them when they collect.  I can't imagine that putting the item back into the packaging in which it came is beyond the bounds of reason - although of course the buyer is clearly not a reasonable person, as evidenced by their attempted extortion.

I entirely agree that the buyer is not reasonable. However, I think he has the OP by the short and curlies, and it's sensible to recognise that.