DWP/Pension Service handling LPA's wrongly

phonek

Has anyone else had issues with the way DWP/Pension Service handles LPA's (Lasting Power of Attorney's)? 

Other organisations like banks allow my mother (the LPA Donor) to retail full control of their account, and simply add me as her LPA Attorney to have additional access to deal with her account if needed (giving me a separate login for her online banking, for example). So all correspondence is still with her, until such time as she chooses herself to relinquish control to me (or should she ever lose full mental capacity). 

However, DWP/Pension Service insists everything is removed from her when we setup an LPA with them, and she will lose all access to dealing with them in any capacity, with all her correspondence having to be with me (inc. posted to my address). 

This doesn't follow the rules the OPG (Office of the Public Guardian) explicitly state for how organisations are supposed to handle LPA's when they are given them, in order to give an Attorney additional access an deal with a Donor's account. The OPG states that when given an LPA, organisations should not automatically and instantly remove the rights of the Donor to access their own accounts when setting up an LPA with the organisation in order for an Attorney to be given additional access. 

DWP/Pension Service is not following those rules whatsoever, and refuses to do so. As when my mother requested that I as her Attorney be allowed to deal with them in addition to herself, they flatly refuse, saying as soon as the LPA is setup with them, all correspondence can then only be done by me as her Attorney, and they will refuse all contact with herself as the Donor. 

She is upset by this, as she feels her rights are being denied by the Pension Service, as this is not how organisations should handle LPA's under OPG's rules, because Donor's are not supposed to be denied access and all communication by an organisation unless they have actually lost mental capacity which she has not (she just prefers I do her financial work, as she finds it more difficult than I do, but she's not lost mental ability in any way). 

Speaking to the Pension Service on the phone myself several times, they were entirely dismissive, despite me pointing out the rules on the OPG's website directly to them! Writing a complaint letter 3 months ago was also duly completely unanswered too. TBH they are the most self-serving organisation I've ever had the displeasure of having to deal with. 

Unlike every other organisation or company we've been able to setup the LPA with, we cannot set it up properly according to the OPG's rules with them. Effectively meaning I am left unable to deal with them when needed, accordingly. 

Brie

Would  they accept the simpler alternative of a letter of authority signed by mom allowing you to act on her behalf?  It's simply a case of you being able to talk to them on days when she cannot etc.  No different than if I were to ring them to help someone who is autistic or deaf and couldn't otherwise use a normal phone line.

xylophone

Assuming that your mother normally has minimal contact with DWP (just the annual increase/winter fuel letters), it hardly seems worth the argument.

Just don't register the LPA with DWP until you have to and she can carry on as heretofore.

phonek

Brie said:

Would they accept the simpler alternative of a letter of authority signed by mom allowing you to act on her behalf? It's simply a case of you being able to talk to them on days when she cannot etc. No different than if I were to ring them to help someone who is autistic or deaf and couldn't otherwise use a normal phone line.

AFAIR, they said they don't accept 'letters of authority' to do this. 

xylophone said:

Assuming that your mother normally has minimal contact with DWP (just the annual increase/winter fuel letters), it hardly seems worth the argument.

Just don't register the LPA with DWP until you have to and she can carry on as heretofore.

Sure, though when I do have to speak to them, then she has to be there too; which is needlessly utterly ridiculous. 

But the bigger point I'm trying to make here, is they are very wrongly acting against the rules as set by the govt's  own department who issues them (the OPG). And the irony is not lost on me, that they are another gov't dept themselves, all while other private companies manage to follow the rules without issue! 

If their rule breaking is affecting me, then it's going to be affecting potentially thousands of others too needing to do this. Especially given it's The Pension Service here, so we're literally talking about people of a certain age who rely on LPA's to be enacted properly by govt departments. Which they are simply not doing, nor care that they are either. 

tacpot12

I think you should ask your MP to look into why your complaint wasn't answered, and ask if they have a view about what the DWP should be doing. 

Albermarle

However, DWP/Pension Service insists everything is removed from her when we setup an LPA with them, and she will lose all access to dealing with them in any capacity, with all her correspondence having to be with me (inc. posted to my address)

I am guessing that the logic of the DWP is that normally an LPA is only registered with an organisation when the donor becomes mentally incapable. So from then on they should only deal with the attorney as the donor has become incapable.

You could twist it around the other way and say it is surprising that banks allow this dual access. If for example a donor did have mental capacity issues and drew all the money and gave it to a scammer, then the attorney would probably kick up a big fuss. 

It would seem the chance of you changing the DWP's policy is approx nil, so you will just have to work around it. 

LHW99

Is the person on the DWP phones confusing the old EPA (which was only put into operation when mental capacity was lost) with the new LPA which operates differently I wonder?

xylophone

the old EPA (which was only put into operation when mental capacity was lost) 

No - it could be used before that point - it is just that it had to be registered with the OPG if that point was reached.

https://www.gov.uk/use-or-cancel-an-enduring-power-of-attorney#:~:text=An enduring power of attorney ( EPA ) is a document that,property, money and financial affairs.

phonek

Thanks all for the ideas. 

It seems to me there is no single indisputable understanding on how to handle LPAs, especially and specifically before the Donor has lost capacity – each organisation handles them according to their own internal differing criteria to suit themselves. 

Some allow both Donor and Attorney equal or near equal access/comms. Others insist the Donor is blocked from access/comms, and still others do something in between. 

I contacted the OPG on this, and they insist if the Donor still has full mental capacity, then they should not be blocked from using their accounts and communicating with any organisation when given an LPA. But they have no enforcement operations, even doing a simple letter of explanation to organisations reported to them is not routinely done. So no wonder so many can get away with failing to operate correctly within legal compliance. 

Seemingly there are either holes in organisations understanding of how they should be handling LPAs, and/or often the flagrant disregard of OPG rules for how Donors should be treated, in favour of made-up ones that suit the organisations themselves rather than Donors legal rights. 

What irks me, is that it's both a govt dept who's breaking the rules we're talking about, who should know better, and that they're so completely self-serving as an organisation, that even when advised they're handling something against OPG rules (verbally and in writing), they simply ignore said communications and the facts concerned, continuaing their mishandling of LPA's regardless. 

Sure, the MP contact idea is possible, but quite frankly that's something I don't have time to deal with, and is likely a very drawn-out and protracted timescale with a slim chance of seeing an outcome anytime soon. 

xylophone

Sure, though when I do have to speak to them, then she has to be there too; which is needlessly utterly ridiculous. 

But realistically, how often do you (or she) have to speak to them?

Albermarle

Seemingly there are either holes in organisations understanding of how they should be handling LPAs, and/or often the flagrant disregard of OPG rules for how Donors should be treated, in favour of made-up ones that suit the organisations themselves rather than Donors legal rights. 
What irks me, is that it's both a govt dept who's breaking the rules we're talking about, who should know better,

Not sure if it will make you feel any better about it, but we see numerous example on these forums of poor/wrong/misleading info being given out by HMRC, banks, pension providers etc

Staff are often badly informed/trained.

There is a hot subject on the Savings forum regarding when interest from multi year fixed savings accounts is taxed. There is an official line, but anybody phoning HMRC about it or enquiring on a HMRC forum could get any number of varying responses.