Garage misdiagnosed issues

Jackimp97

Hello, 

I've had a look through a few posts on this forum and just looking at getting another opinion. My girlfriend had a few issues with her car starting, she wanted to get an 'expert' opinion from a well known dealership to get the problem fully diagnosed as it was intermittent (car wasn't always turning over/starting, having to jump start it). 

She paid for diagnostics, where they said they can't accurately tell the issue but they can see from a service certain things needed replacing (timing belt, brakes etc.) it would cost £1,800. Not totally convinced but wanting to get the issue sorted (heavily relies on a car for work), she said that's fine. Few days later they called saying they had done the work but had to replace the catalytic converter as they couldn't fit the old one back on (extra £700), made it out she couldn't do anything about that. She took the car home.

Few days later she had an engine warning light come up (never had this issue before the repairs) so she took it straight back. They said it should be a quick fix so bring it in. It was fine again. Few days after that it came back on and the car didn't start again. She took it back and said they hadn't sorted the original issue. They said no problem we will have a look, after more diagnosis they worked out it was the starter motor (would this not have been checked in initial diagnosis for a car not starting?). They fixed it on the house (fair enough).

Few days after that the engine warning light came back on and now the car started making a loud ticking noise when stationary. They've now called back saying it's to do with the pump and making out that due to missing one service that it's our fault. They've already changed the part and said it'll cost £500 or they can take it off. 

Obviously a lot of time has been taken driving to and from the garage (45 mins each way). So a lot of petrol, time and money wasted.

Is there anything that can be done? Any help would be much appreciated.

Stateofart

Very difficult to unpick what could have happened.  How old is the car?  Does it have a manufacturer warranty?  Have you serviced it according to time and spec. (i.e. within one month and 1000 miles of what the schedule says)?  Has the part failed due to lack of servicing?

Jackimp97

Thanks for messaging. The car is 10 years old and has done 90,000 miles. It has been fully serviced apart from missing one year over covid. The frustrating bit is that it was taken in due to a fault, they serviced it changing a few key things. Once these were changed they said oh it was just the starter motor that needed replacing and since they've changed the timing belt it has caused another issue.

They've now said that the delaminated timing belt caused a block in the vacuum pump which caused the engine warning light and ticking noise.

tedted

what car and engine type

Jackimp97

Its a Ford Fiesta 1.0 Ecoboost

Jackimp97

Stateofart said:

Very difficult to unpick what could have happened.  How old is the car?  Does it have a manufacturer warranty?  Have you serviced it according to time and spec. (i.e. within one month and 1000 miles of what the schedule says)?  Has the part failed due to lack of servicing?

Thanks for messaging. The car is 10 years old and has done 90,000 miles. It has been fully serviced apart from missing one year over covid. The frustrating bit is that it was taken in due to a fault, they serviced it changing a few key things. Once these were changed they said oh it was just the starter motor that needed replacing and since they've changed the timing belt it has caused another issue.

They've now said that the delaminated timing belt caused a block in the vacuum pump which caused the engine warning light and ticking noise.

Mildly_Miffed

That's very likely.

The 1.0 Ecoboost has what's called a "wet timing belt" - normally, camchains run inside the engine in oil, cambelts run outside and dry. This engine, along with a few others, have a belt inside the engine in oil.

Normally, belts don't like oil, and start to break up quickly.

There have been problems with these wet belts, and 10yr/90k is definitely about right for them to start showing their face - if not a lot earlier...

No, they haven't "caused it" - but by catching it in time, they've saved her a VERY large bill. Could missing the service have meant it wasn't spotted earlier? Perhaps. Has it been serviced since then?

Stateofart

Google 'wet belt ford' and you'll see the amount of issues they've caused.

Jackimp97

Mildly_Miffed said:

That's very likely.

The 1.0 Ecoboost has what's called a "wet timing belt" - normally, camchains run inside the engine in oil, cambelts run outside and dry. This engine, along with a few others, have a belt inside the engine in oil.

Normally, belts don't like oil, and start to break up quickly.

There have been problems with these wet belts, and 10yr/90k is definitely about right for them to start showing their face - if not a lot earlier...

No, they haven't "caused it" - but by catching it in time, they've saved her a VERY large bill. Could missing the service have meant it wasn't spotted earlier? Perhaps. Has it been serviced since then?

Thank you for the explanation! Much more help than they have been haha. 

My bad it wasn't serviced last year, but has been every year before that.

Do you know if a pump would normally need replacing after a new timing belt too? 

CliveOfIndia

Jackimp97 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

That's very likely.

The 1.0 Ecoboost has what's called a "wet timing belt" - normally, camchains run inside the engine in oil, cambelts run outside and dry. This engine, along with a few others, have a belt inside the engine in oil.

Normally, belts don't like oil, and start to break up quickly.

There have been problems with these wet belts, and 10yr/90k is definitely about right for them to start showing their face - if not a lot earlier...

No, they haven't "caused it" - but by catching it in time, they've saved her a VERY large bill. Could missing the service have meant it wasn't spotted earlier? Perhaps. Has it been serviced since then?

Do you know if a pump would normally need replacing after a new timing belt too? 

Which pump?  It's common practice to replace the water pump at the same time as (not after) the cambelt, purely because of the labour costs.  To change a cambelt there's a heck of a lot of dismantling, so it's the labour that costs the big money - the part itself is cheap.  Since you have to dismantle the same set of gubbins to get to the water pump, it makes sense to change it at the same time - a few extra quid for a new pump to save another shed-load of labour later on.

Goudy

The ticking noise is the vacuum pump rattling.

Just like diesels engines that naturally don't produce enough intake vacuum to properly service the brake booster servo with vacuum, the Ford 1.0 Ecoboost has a vacuum pump to generate the vacuum to service the brake booster servo.

It's on the rear (gearbox end) of the engine and is ran off the cam shaft via a keyed drive.
It's this that rattles as the keyed drive wears out when it's starved of oil.

The usually reason these parts get starved of oil is the delaminating cam belt, which as already described is a belt in oil or often called a wet belt.
It's wet, in oil to reduce friction, which reduces emissions.
Ford and one or two other manufacturers run their cambelts like this.

This belt over time starts to break up and parts of it jam up the oil ways and reduce the oil flowing around the engine.
Eventually without enough oil circulating, it will ruin the engine completely.

These belts in oil are a real problem for owners as the cars get older.
There are hard to check as they are inside the engine and due to being inside, they are hard to get at to replace so require lots of hours labour.

Honda also have issues with their 1.0 turbo engine due to this configuration and have similarly unhappy owners.