PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.

Leaseholder refusing to contribute towards major works

Hello there, I need assistance regarding a leaseholder who does not want to pay for works.

The building built in 1880, has been split into three properties:

1A (ground floor)

1B (1st floor)

1C (2nd floor)

The way the leases are written, 1A (ground floor) is responsible for foundations etc and 1B and 1C are responsible for the roof, etc.  I live in 1C (2nd floor), the roof is in dire need of repair, and I have several leaks in my home.  The owner of 1B (1st floor) is refusing to contribute towards the works because he believes the cost should be split three ways, so that the owner of 1A is included, even though the lease does not allow for that. However, I strongly believe that the owner, who has never lived here and rents his property out at £1k per month, just doesn't want to pay, so is doing all he can to complicate matters, as whenever even minor works are required, it takes him months to engage and then he takes a long time to pay, so we end up paying the contractor (1A & 1C) whilst we wait for 1B to pay us back. 

Buildings insurance won’t cover it because the building is 150 years old and when their assessor visited, he said it’s wear and tear and the roof needs to be replaced – I agree with him.

I tried to deal with the matter via my legal protection insurance, but Crappy Legal said this dispute doesn't come under property law or contract law on my policy, so they will not represent me in this matter!

I cannot afford to pay for a Solicitor, as well as pay for a new roof, and the owner of 1B is refusing to engage, so I am stuck with several leaks into my home!  How can I get the owner of 1B to contribute to the roof repairs, which are in excess of £10,000 each?

Thank you in anticipation of your help.

«1

Comments

  • user1977
    user1977 Posts: 17,332 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Seventh Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    Firstly, have you actually checked your legal protection cover to see what it’s meant to cover, rather than just take their word for it?
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 17,780 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 10 November 2023 at 9:33AM

    1B and 1C are responsible for the roof, etc. 


    There are usually 2 aspects to this in a lease...
    1. The person who is responsible for maintaining and repairing the roof
    2. The person/people who must contribute to the cost of maintaining and repairing the roof

    What do your leases say about this?

    An example of of what leases might say is...
    • The freeholder is responsible for maintaining and repairing the roof, and
    • The leaseholders of 1B and 1C must each contribute 50% of the cost

    Another example is...
    • The leaseholder of 1C is responsible for maintaining and repairing the roof, and
    • The leaseholder of 1C can claim 50% of the cost from the leaseholder of 1B

    (Also are you joint freeholders - i.e. you have a shared freehold - or is there a 3rd party freeholder?)


  • Mildreds_Earrings
    Mildreds_Earrings Posts: 204 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 100 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 10 November 2023 at 11:25AM
    @eddddyHello, thanks for your response. I should have said in my original post that 1A is the freeholder for the building and is a fellow leaseholder who lives here. 

    The official copy of register of title, for 1B and 1C, states as follows:

    Charges Register contains any charges that affect the land. The Transferee hereby covenants with the Transferors as follows:

    To maintain the structure of the premises hereby transferred in such state of repair and condition as shall at all times hereafter ensure the maintenance or support and protection to the retained premises. 

    AND 

    All other parts of the retained premises including the roof, are the property of the Transferor and shall be maintained and repaired by them and their successors in title.

    Thank you. 
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 17,780 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper

    That's not the lease - as you say, that's the Title Register.  The lease will be a long document - maybe 20 to 50 pages. That's what you need to read.


    But your quote makes it sound like freeholder would be responsible for repairing the roof. And then most typical leases would say that each of the 3 leaseholders/flat owners has to contribute a 1/3rd of the cost.

    Why do you think that's not the case with your lease?

  • katejo
    katejo Posts: 4,213 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper

    Hello there, I need assistance regarding a leaseholder who does not want to pay for works.

    The building built in 1880, has been split into three properties:

    1A (ground floor)

    1B (1st floor)

    1C (2nd floor)

    The way the leases are written, 1A (ground floor) is responsible for foundations etc and 1B and 1C are responsible for the roof, etc.  I live in 1C (2nd floor), the roof is in dire need of repair, and I have several leaks in my home.  The owner of 1B (1st floor) is refusing to contribute towards the works because he believes the cost should be split three ways, so that the owner of 1A is included, even though the lease does not allow for that. However, I strongly believe that the owner, who has never lived here and rents his property out at £1k per month, just doesn't want to pay, so is doing all he can to complicate matters, as whenever even minor works are required, it takes him months to engage and then he takes a long time to pay, so we end up paying the contractor (1A & 1C) whilst we wait for 1B to pay us back. 

    Buildings insurance won’t cover it because the building is 150 years old and when their assessor visited, he said it’s wear and tear and the roof needs to be replaced – I agree with him.

    I tried to deal with the matter via my legal protection insurance, but Crappy Legal said this dispute doesn't come under property law or contract law on my policy, so they will not represent me in this matter!

    I cannot afford to pay for a Solicitor, as well as pay for a new roof, and the owner of 1B is refusing to engage, so I am stuck with several leaks into my home!  How can I get the owner of 1B to contribute to the roof repairs, which are in excess of £10,000 each?

    Thank you in anticipation of your help.

    I was in a similar position to you 30 years ago. There were 2 maisonettes in my building and I was the 1st floor leaseholder. The lease stated that I had overall responsibility for repairs to the upper half of the building but that the ground floor leaseholder had to pay half the cost. That leaseholder refused to cooperate. It was just before Christmas and the weather was bad. I would have had to go to court over it and this would not have been possible until January. Meanwhile more damage would have occurred  to my flat! Fortunately my Dad rescued me at the time and paid for the roof repair. I never got any money out of the ground floor leaseholder. 
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 17,780 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    katejo said:

    I was in a similar position to you 30 years ago. There were 2 maisonettes in my building and I was the 1st floor leaseholder. The lease stated that I had overall responsibility for repairs to the upper half of the building but that the ground floor leaseholder had to pay half the cost. That leaseholder refused to cooperate. It was just before Christmas and the weather was bad. I would have had to go to court over it and this would not have been possible until January. Meanwhile more damage would have occurred  to my flat! Fortunately my Dad rescued me at the time and paid for the roof repair. I never got any money out of the ground floor leaseholder. 

    You could still have taken the other leaseholder to court after the work was done - to claim the 50% from them (if that's what the lease said).


    But just to clarify - it's not at all clear that @Mildreds_Earrings lease says the same as your lease. 

    (In fact, I suspect that @Mildreds_Earrings' lease says that the freeholder is responsible for repairing the roof. But we'll wait to see.)

  • Mildreds_Earrings
    Mildreds_Earrings Posts: 204 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 100 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 12 November 2023 at 4:48PM
    Thanks for all your responses.  Sorry I wasn't clear!   I thought I could simply explain how the roof repairs refer to 1B and 1C only, whereas the roof isn't mentioned for 1A.  

    The house was first split into two, between 1A and 1B and the lease agreement between these two properties states as follows:

    RESERVING unto the Vendor and his successors in title owners and occupiers for the time being of the retained premises: The Vendor thereby covenanted with the Purchaser and her successors in title owners or occupiers for the time being of the property thereby assigned that the vendor should maintain and keep in good repair the roof of the upper flat together with the joists and roof timbers.

    It is my understanding that when 1A (the original Vendor) split the property into two and sold 1B to the Purchaser, the Purchaser, then had responsible to "maintain and keep in good repair the roof of the upper flat together with the joists and roof timbers".  According to the lease for 1A, they are responsible for the footings, foundations etc and 1B is responsible for the roof, timbers, joists, etc.

    Decades later, the property was split again and 1B then became two properties, 1B and 1C but there is no lease for 1C (yes, really).  The former owners of 1C signed a Deed of mutual covenant between leasehold owners with 1B  However, I did not sign any such document, so I don't even know whether I am responsible for the roof repairs but 1B definitely is, for the reasons stated above.  That said, even though I didn't sign any such document, I might have inherited shared responsibility for the roof by purchasing 1C.  

    Hope that makes sense.
  • katejo said
    I was in a similar position to you 30 years ago. There were 2 maisonettes in my building and I was the 1st floor leaseholder. The lease stated that I had overall responsibility for repairs to the upper half of the building but that the ground floor leaseholder had to pay half the cost. That leaseholder refused to cooperate. It was just before Christmas and the weather was bad. I would have had to go to court over it and this would not have been possible until January. Meanwhile more damage would have occurred  to my flat! Fortunately my Dad rescued me at the time and paid for the roof repair. I never got any money out of the ground floor leaseholder. 
    Hello @katejo I think that's what the owner of 1B is hoping but I just can't afford it! 
  • Mildreds_Earrings
    Mildreds_Earrings Posts: 204 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 100 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 12 November 2023 at 4:59PM
    eddddy said:

    (In fact, I suspect that @Mildreds_Earrings' lease says that the freeholder is responsible for repairing the roof. But we'll wait to see.)

    Hello @edddy I wish it says the freeholder (1A) was responsible, then he could serve 1B & 1C with S20 documents and be done with it but it doesn't state that in the lease. There isn't even a lease for 1C! That's why I quoted from the land registry documents. 

    The house was first split into two, between 1A and 1B and the lease agreement between these two properties states as follows:
    RESERVING unto the Vendor and his successors in title owners and occupiers for the time being of the retained premises: The Vendor thereby covenanted with the Purchaser and her successors in title owners or occupiers for the time being of the property thereby assigned that the vendor should maintain and keep in good repair the roof of the upper flat together with the joists and roof timbers.
  • I should also add that when I purchased the apartment, the Sellers paid an indemnity policy because of the missing lease, so I am not sure if I can claim against that?  I don't know what to claim though, as it's not their fault that 1B does not want to pay towards roof repairs.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 349.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 252.7K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.1K Spending & Discounts
  • 242.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 619.8K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.4K Life & Family
  • 255.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.