Land Registry FR1 form

jugsy58

Hi everyone i was wondering if i could get some help ?  In January 2021 my father passed away unexpected but had left a will leaving everything to his wife (my mother) i took on the role of administrator and started to sort his affairs out. The family home is in my fathers name and quite suddenly in May of 2021 my mother also passed away but had no will which meant although my father left her the house it was never put in her name. We applied for probate and was granted probate in 2022. 
My siblings have since agreed to gift me their share of the the family home which is still in dads name what forms do i need to fill in ?
I thought it was FR1 for first time registry but as only administrator can i do this ?
I have certificate of probate after my mums passing so how do i do this myself and get the correct forms filled in to go to land registry ?
I would appreciate any advice available    Julie

Tiglet2

If the grant of probate names you as the administrator, then you are authorised to deal with the estate.

It's not clear whether the property is registered at the Land Registry or not?  FR1 is used where the property is unregistered and the proof of ownership is by paper deeds only.  Registered titles are held by the Land Registry and a transfer of a registered title would be by form TR1.

propertyrental

I hesitate to question your usually spot-on advice Tiglet2, but would it not be form AS1?

https://www.gov.uk/update-property-records-someone-dies

Assuming of course the property is registred, which is ot clear

One assumes also there is no mortgage......

EssexHebridean

Yes, AS1 (Assent) if the property is registered, realistically that is something that could be done relatively easily by a an individual although it might be a good idea to take advice on how best to deal with the gifting of the property - it may not be quite as straightforward as them simply gifting it to you, or at least, this may not be the best way of dealing with it. 

If the property hasn’t ever been registered though that will indeed be an FR1 plus an AS1. The AS1 shows the final “piece of the jigsaw” and how the property would come to you. IMO a first registration is probably not so easily done by someone without the knowledge of how it all works though, as there will be a number of other documents required. 

Tiglet2

Yes, sorry brain fog, it is AS1  

jugsy58

Hi and thank you so much for advice and apologies for delay in reply's.
The last time the property was registered and a search done was 1959 when my grandad purchased it, after that my grandad passed away in 1968 and house went to his wife (my nan).
My nan  gifted it to my father in January 1980 but neither my nan or my father ever registered the property with land registry.
I was told by land registry that because it wasn't compulsory then that i would now need form FR1 and form DL this was all while i thought i'd applied to be executor but now know i am only administrator.
So i need to know if this is all correct ?
I did probate myself and have certificates acknowledging myself and siblings as administrators , my siblings don't want the house they have taken the money from the estate so will it be a straightforward first time registry and am i entitled to do it ?
Would like to say thank you in advance for any advice on this matter .... Julie

propertyrental

So
* the property is unregistered (and I assume not mortgaged)
* your siblings have taken their inheritance from your father's estate other than via the property (eg from savings/investments)
* As all Administrators/Beneficiaries are in agreement, the property can be transferred to you, and you should undertake 1st Registration

My advice would be to use a solicitor as this may be a complex transfer

* 1st registrations are, by definition, more complicated than transfers of registered properties
* all paperwork/paper deeds are needed, and must be in order, to prove (in this case your father's) ownership
* that generally means paper transfers/conveyances and related deeds not just of the current owner, but previous historical owners going back in time, thus showing that each owner had legal ownership and hence the right to sell or pass on the property
* in this case additionally the valid  inheritance of the property by at least 2 previous owners must be established.

Do you still want to know what forms to use..........?

jugsy58

Good day and thank you for your reply so quickly.
There is no mortgage on the property it was owned and gifted outright to my father from his mother and this  paperwork was added to the original deeds.
The original deeds give the names of the previous owners who owned the property before my grandfather purchased it from them and then he left it to his wife when he passed in 1968.
My nan did use a solicitor when gifting it to her son (my father) and that is in the deeds paperwork.
When my father passed we simply did not have enough time to convey the house to my mother (as beneficiary) because she also passed within a few months.
My father left a will gifting all his belongings to his wife (my mum) including the house. 
My mum never left a will and therefore it went to probate which was granted in 2022.
I really did not want to use a solicitor for this as they are so expensive and i am not sure if i need a notary ?
But i also don't want to fill the wrong forms in as i am not sure i will simply lose the payment sent with the form.
I would like to know what forms to use if possible and would i be too demanding to ask if i have any questions regarding it all would i be able to call upon your help again?
Thank you so much Julie

EssexHebridean

I'm not sure why you think you would need a notary?

Seriously - propertyrental above is correct - a First Reg is NOT a job for an amateur, even those of us who deal with registrations all the time find them fairly challenging!  You have to ensure that you have all the documents that will be required to show the timeline of the property - not just from the point where your grandfather purchased. You have to prepare the relevant document to show that timeline too. Chances are that once the application is lodged, the Land Reg may then need to raise requisitions to ask for further information - and those may well be couched in terms which are not necessarily easy for a complete layman to understand. 

If you use the wrong forms, you won't lose your payment, it will be returned to you when the application is rejected. 

If you make a mess of the registration, future sales of the property may well become very difficult - there is nothing more likely to make a proposed buyer walk away than issues in the title which are going to prove time-consuming and costly to resolve - the cost of a solicitor down the line to resolve issues will be far in excess of what it will cost you now to have the property properly registered.

Think about it this way - if you were selling a property for £300k, you'd almost certainly have no hesitation in using an estate agent who would probably charge you 1% of thereabouts of the sale figure to do their work. That figure is far in excess of what it will cost you to pay a solicitor for the registration now. Now stop and think how much training an estate agent has to carry out their role - the answer is none in most cases. People can roll straight out of school, learn on the job. Meanwhile, your solicitor will have been to university, done their law degree, then done a further year's post-grad, and then still further time honing their trade at the most junior level in a solicitors firm - that is a lot of time, effort and money invested, yet they will still only charge a fraction of what most EAs do on conveyancing transactions. 

Bluntly - you've got a free house - don't scrimp on making sure that the title is in good order. 

propertyrental

jugsy58 said:

,,,,,,,,,
I really did not want to use a solicitor for this as they are so expensive and i am not sure if i need a notary ?
But i also don't want to fill the wrong forms in as i am not sure i will simply lose the payment sent with the form.
I would like to know what forms to use if possible and would i be too demanding to ask if i have any questions regarding it all would i be able to call upon your help again?
Thank you so much Julie

This is a moneysaving site. The way to save money in this scenario is to pay a solicitor to deal with this and get it right.

I could advise on the forms, but might misadvise you, so prefer not to.

I'd also be reluctant to advise "if i have any questions regarding it all ". 

If you are still determined to DIY, then my advice is to spend considerable time upfront reading online guides, books from your local library, Land Registry guidance notes etc- basically learning what a solicitor needs to know to do this job.

Don't worry, you don't need to do the full law degree etc as that would cover lots more than just conveyancing!

EssexHebridean

propertyrental said:

jugsy58 said:

,,,,,,,,,
I really did not want to use a solicitor for this as they are so expensive and i am not sure if i need a notary ?
But i also don't want to fill the wrong forms in as i am not sure i will simply lose the payment sent with the form.
I would like to know what forms to use if possible and would i be too demanding to ask if i have any questions regarding it all would i be able to call upon your help again?
Thank you so much Julie

This is a moneysaving site. The way to save money in this scenario is to pay a solicitor to deal with this and get it right.

I could advise on the forms, but might misadvise you, so prefer not to.

I'd also be reluctant to advise "if i have any questions regarding it all ". 

If you are still determined to DIY, then my advice is to spend considerable time upfront reading online guides, books from your local library, Land Registry guidance notes etc- basically learning what a solicitor needs to know to do this job.

Don't worry, you don't need to do the full law degree etc as that would cover lots more than just conveyancing!

Likewise, and I would think that in fact anyone who does know what they are doing on this would feel the same, as without actually seeing the full file on the matter it would be very difficult to ensure that the correct advice was being given.