Call-out charge

BinkySnuffhausen

I needed a specialist heating control electrician and booked one recommended by my boiler service engineer. The electrician then couldn’t come but passed the job to another independent electrician who came, looked briefly at the job, said that I needed a specialist heating control electrician, that he was unable to do it and charged me £80 for the call-out. He had told me in advance that he charged £80 for a callout and I’d have expected to pay this if he’d offered a solution that I rejected, but I don’t think I should pay it as he knew the job before he came and then simply chose to walk away from it.

Aylesbury_Duck

BinkySnuffhausen said:

I needed a specialist heating control electrician and booked one recommended by my boiler service engineer. The electrician then couldn’t come but passed the job to another independent electrician who came, looked briefly at the job, said that I needed a specialist heating control electrician, that he was unable to do it and charged me £80 for the call-out. He had told me in advance that he charged £80 for a callout and I’d have expected to pay this if he’d offered a solution that I rejected, but I don’t think I should pay it as he knew the job before he came and then simply chose to walk away from it.

Surely a callout is a callout, whether work is done or not?  It sounds like he couldn’t assess the job without visiting, so why do you think he knew the job before he came?  If the callout fee was explained to you before he visited I don’t think you have anything to complain about.

Would you you rather he didn’t walk away and tried to fix something he doesn’t have the expertise to fix?

eskbanker

BinkySnuffhausen said:

I needed a specialist heating control electrician and booked one recommended by my boiler service engineer. The electrician then couldn’t come but passed the job to another independent electrician who came, looked briefly at the job, said that I needed a specialist heating control electrician, that he was unable to do it and charged me £80 for the call-out. He had told me in advance that he charged £80 for a callout and I’d have expected to pay this if he’d offered a solution that I rejected, but I don’t think I should pay it as he knew the job before he came and then simply chose to walk away from it.

You booked a specialist but they 'passed the job' to a non-specialist?  I think you have every right to take this up with the first one, albeit this is more of a moral 'right' than a legal one....

ThumbRemote

Aylesbury_Duck said:

BinkySnuffhausen said:

I needed a specialist heating control electrician and booked one recommended by my boiler service engineer. The electrician then couldn’t come but passed the job to another independent electrician who came, looked briefly at the job, said that I needed a specialist heating control electrician, that he was unable to do it and charged me £80 for the call-out. He had told me in advance that he charged £80 for a callout and I’d have expected to pay this if he’d offered a solution that I rejected, but I don’t think I should pay it as he knew the job before he came and then simply chose to walk away from it.

Surely a callout is a callout, whether work is done or not?  It sounds like he couldn’t assess the job without visiting, so why do you think he knew the job before he came?  If the callout fee was explained to you before he visited I don’t think you have anything to complain about.

Would you you rather he didn’t walk away and tried to fix something he doesn’t have the expertise to fix?

I would expect a call-out fee to be a component of the whole job; I wouldn't expect it to be paid if no work was carried out. 

Otherwise where do you draw the line? If they simply choose not to do the work because they don't want to, should the customer pay? Or if they get lost on the way and never turn up?

PHK

ThumbRemote said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

BinkySnuffhausen said:

I needed a specialist heating control electrician and booked one recommended by my boiler service engineer. The electrician then couldn’t come but passed the job to another independent electrician who came, looked briefly at the job, said that I needed a specialist heating control electrician, that he was unable to do it and charged me £80 for the call-out. He had told me in advance that he charged £80 for a callout and I’d have expected to pay this if he’d offered a solution that I rejected, but I don’t think I should pay it as he knew the job before he came and then simply chose to walk away from it.

Surely a callout is a callout, whether work is done or not?  It sounds like he couldn’t assess the job without visiting, so why do you think he knew the job before he came?  If the callout fee was explained to you before he visited I don’t think you have anything to complain about.

Would you you rather he didn’t walk away and tried to fix something he doesn’t have the expertise to fix?

I would expect a call-out fee to be a component of the whole job; I wouldn't expect it to be paid if no work was carried out. 

Otherwise where do you draw the line? If they simply choose not to do the work because they don't want to, should the customer pay? Or if they get lost on the way and never turn up?

This is a new one on me. Call out charges have always been a charge for coming out to give an opinion. 

Some contractors will give a free quote for basic work but that's something else. 

Aylesbury_Duck

ThumbRemote said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

BinkySnuffhausen said:

I needed a specialist heating control electrician and booked one recommended by my boiler service engineer. The electrician then couldn’t come but passed the job to another independent electrician who came, looked briefly at the job, said that I needed a specialist heating control electrician, that he was unable to do it and charged me £80 for the call-out. He had told me in advance that he charged £80 for a callout and I’d have expected to pay this if he’d offered a solution that I rejected, but I don’t think I should pay it as he knew the job before he came and then simply chose to walk away from it.

Surely a callout is a callout, whether work is done or not?  It sounds like he couldn’t assess the job without visiting, so why do you think he knew the job before he came?  If the callout fee was explained to you before he visited I don’t think you have anything to complain about.

Would you you rather he didn’t walk away and tried to fix something he doesn’t have the expertise to fix?

I would expect a call-out fee to be a component of the whole job; I wouldn't expect it to be paid if no work was carried out. 

Otherwise where do you draw the line? If they simply choose not to do the work because they don't want to, should the customer pay? Or if they get lost on the way and never turn up?

I think it comes down the definition of 'work'.  If he simply chose not to do the work or never turned up, no, a callout charge isn't justified.  In OP's situation, I assume (but could be wrong) that he arrived, took a good look at the problem, assessed it as something he wasn't capable or equipped to fix, and gave OP his opinion accordingly.  That justifies a callout fee in my opinion.  The 'work' he did was to apply his professional expertise to diagnose the problem as something requiring different expertise.

ArbitraryRandom

My understanding is you're not disputing you were informed of and agreed to the fee in advance; that he travelled to your home (so costing him time and fuel), and he assessed the problem - So broadly ticking the boxes for charging a fee as per the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPRs)

The only argument I can see for not paying would be if he knew he would be unable to do the job before setting out (arguably fraud). 

Given you knew this required a specialist and you actually spoke to him to arrange the visit, did you tell him what the specialist equipment was and describe the problem in any detail - and did he give you any assurances that he'd worked on this model before or that he was a specialist?

If not, and it was just a job passed on from another tradesman, how would he know he couldn't do it before coming out to see? 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

I think the problem here is OP hired a specialist and then didn't get one. 

Personally I wouldn't pay and would tell the guy to take it up with the first person who recommended him for the job.  

littleboo

Did the specialist contact the non-specialist directly and arrange for them to attend, or did the specialist give you the details of the non-specialist in order to make an arrangement with them?

Jumblebumble

ArbitraryRandom said:

My understanding is you're not disputing you were informed of and agreed to the fee in advance; that he travelled to your home (so costing him time and fuel), and he assessed the problem - So broadly ticking the boxes for charging a fee as per the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPRs)

The only argument I can see for not paying would be if he knew he would be unable to do the job before setting out (arguably fraud). 

Given you knew this required a specialist and you actually spoke to him to arrange the visit, did you tell him what the specialist equipment was and describe the problem in any detail - and did he give you any assurances that he'd worked on this model before or that he was a specialist?

If not, and it was just a job passed on from another tradesman, how would he know he couldn't do it before coming out to see? 

Hmm
I am a specialist in my field
As a specialist I make it my business to find out what the job is before I agree to do it. I dont expect the customer to know anything about my specialist equipment. Why would they?

I certainly don't just turn up and tell the customer that having looked at it I can't do it and expect to be paid for doing so since  I find customers  are reluctant to pay for someone else to tell them (The customer who does not know how to fix the problem)  that  they don't know how to fix the problem either.
The OP has had no value whatever beyond being told what they already knew which is that the job  needed a specialist.

I always feel that those that think the tradesman  should be paid are a conman's dream customer  but that is just me.

ArbitraryRandom

Jumblebumble said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

My understanding is you're not disputing you were informed of and agreed to the fee in advance; that he travelled to your home (so costing him time and fuel), and he assessed the problem - So broadly ticking the boxes for charging a fee as per the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPRs)

The only argument I can see for not paying would be if he knew he would be unable to do the job before setting out (arguably fraud). 

Given you knew this required a specialist and you actually spoke to him to arrange the visit, did you tell him what the specialist equipment was and describe the problem in any detail - and did he give you any assurances that he'd worked on this model before or that he was a specialist?

If not, and it was just a job passed on from another tradesman, how would he know he couldn't do it before coming out to see? 

Hmm
I am a specialist in my field
As a specialist I make it my business to find out what the job is before I agree to do it. I dont expect the customer to know anything about my specialist equipment. Why would they?

I think the issue is the second engineer ISN'T a specialist and had no reason to know/think the job required a specialist unless they were told.

I think they (second guy and customer) were both assuming that the first engineer wouldn't have recommended the second guy for the job if he couldn't do it. 

As to if the fee 'should' be levied morality/good business practices is one thing... but this is the consumer rights board so what matters is the law* - which says that it's legal for the trader to charge a fee if they attend the property as long as the customer was informed and agreed in advance that there would be a fee for attendance which would be separate from the cost of any work which may or may not be carried out/parts which may or may not be required. 

So the OP can argue it's the first engineer's fault or the second engineer should have known, but if the fee is not waived out of good will then they don't really have a defence should it get as far as small claims. 


* As per my earlier post, the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008