Unpaid debt letter from Council 5 yrs after Mum's death

clspg79

Hi, this is my 1st post on the forum. My Mum died 5 years ago, she owned her own home which we sold when she went into Residential Care in December 2017.  She was only there for 9 months, and sadly died. We were self funding. A firm of solicitors acted as executors for her estate, and i did also use the TELL US ONCE service when she died. There were 5 beneficiaries on the will, myself and sister being the 2 main ones. The local authority paid a percentage for a number of weeks when Mum was first in the care home. I have now received an invoice (my details were recorded as first point of contact) for £394.20 relating to Jan-March 2018, they state it has to be paid as Mum had funds in her account then. I had Power of Attorney but was never a joint account holder, I own my own home. The solicitors/executors have emailed the Council offices and asked that the debt be written off as there is nothing left in the estate, it was distributed in February 2019, but they are still pursuing me for it. Am I liable for this outstanding amount. Any advice is appreciated.  

la531983

No you arent liable personally. 

The estate would be but I suspect its been years since it was finalised, 

Brie

If anything needs to be paid back it should be from the estate and as there's nothing left after distribution then it should be from the beneficiaries based on what they received from the estate.  So if you and your sister each received a third of the estate and the other 3 beneficiaries on nineth each then I would suggest that money to be paid back is done using those same percentages.  You might, however, decide that you and your sister split the whole bill if the other 3 are your children/nieces/nephews.  Or in some other fashion agreed due to who will be least impacted by paying out.  

All that said - I would be asking why it has taken so long for them to deal with this and how did the calculate the amount - asking for evidence of the background details.   My MIL died our local council was very quick to point out that money was owed, gave an estimated amount but said a final bill would be forthcoming.  It took a couple of months and a bit of chasing on my part but certainly no more than 3 months total.  

I also wonder if you are now being charged by the solicitors for dealing with any of this as that's going to escalate the money needed to be paid quite quickly if you are.  Did the solicitors/executers post a notice of any sort asking for information of any debts for the estate sometime after your mom's death??  

jlfrs01

I think the key factors here are A: that Solicitors were appointed as Executors so you (and any other beneficiaries) have no personal liability for any of the Estate's debts B: there are no assets left to distribute C; More than 6 months have passed since your mother's passing which is the time allotted for an claims against the Estate.

It could be the person handling this at the Council doesn't know how debts are handled in the event of someone's death.

Question is, how to deal with it. In your position I would call the Council and speak to their Accounts Department starting off by requesting they remove your name and send any correspondence to the Solicitors who were acting as Executors for the Estate because as only a Beneciary you had no liability and legal ability to settle any debts for your late mother's Estate. It's then a matter between them to resolve which because of the reason stated above, ought to be settled quickly once. If they don't agree, ask them why because being a contact or relative isn't reason enough to pursue you.

badmemory

I thought it was the executors who were liable for unpaid debts, which is why when a solicitor was the executor they had to wait 6 months for liabilities to show up.  Or were the solicitors acting for the major beneficiaries who were the executors?

jlfrs01

This article ought to help clear things up:

https://www.lawble.co.uk/claim-against-estate-after-distribution/

In short, unless the Estate was distributed "too soon", i.e under 6 months then Executors and Beneficiaries have no liability to anybody coming out of the woodwork with a claim, including the Council, the 1975 Act applies.

In order to avoid running up Solicitor costs, I still believe the best course of action is for the OP to contact the Council directly and inform them of the facts and if the person they speak doesn't seem willing to play ball (maybe through ignorance and arrogance) then perhaps asking to speak with a Manager may help. Ultimately, this bill does not need to be settled but if the Council doggedly continues to pursue it then it may be a case of splitting it between the beneficiaries as I would expect Solicitor costs, court fees and time would far exceed the £400 they're looking for. I guess it's a judgement call but the hope is the Council would listen to reason based on the rule of law.

Keep_pedalling

badmemory said:

I thought it was the executors who were liable for unpaid debts, which is why when a solicitor was the executor they had to wait 6 months for liabilities to show up.  Or were the solicitors acting for the major beneficiaries who were the executors?

That depends, if the executors failed to place a notice in the London Gazette they can be responsible for any debts that crawl out of the woodwork later on. If they had placed the it then responsibility falls on the residual beneficiaries. 

Its not clear from the opening post if the solicitors were the named executors or they were appointed by the executors to administer the estate.

badmemory

Keep_pedalling said:

badmemory said:

I thought it was the executors who were liable for unpaid debts, which is why when a solicitor was the executor they had to wait 6 months for liabilities to show up.  Or were the solicitors acting for the major beneficiaries who were the executors?

That depends, if the executors failed to place a notice in the London Gazette they can be responsible for any debts that crawl out of the woodwork later on. If they had placed the it then responsibility falls on the residual beneficiaries. 

Its not clear from the opening post if the solicitors were the named executors or they were appointed by the executors to administer the estate.

You see why I always put I thought or I think, but at least it gives those of you who actually know the time as busy people to come up with the right answer & the OP to realise there may be more to it than they thought.

clspg79

Thanks to all for the comments. The executors were named in Mum's will, and therefore instructed upon her death. Yes they did post a notice in the London gazette and also the local paper. The executors are not currently charging fees for this, they will inform me prior to any charges being applied. I initially spoke to the council office in question, and the lady together with the department manager deem the amount payable. I requested a copy of the invoice, it states "for information only , the amount will be collected by Direct Debit on or after 13th May 2018". 
Today I received copies of the bank account statements for that period, the Direct Debit was never requested. 
Also I have just received an email from the Council, in response to the email they received from the solicitors,  they refuse to write off the amount, as it was owed whilst my Mum was alive.
I will speak to the solicitor and see if we can get the Council to remove my name so that they sort this out between them.
Thank heavens it's £400 not £4000.

user1977

Keep_pedalling said:

badmemory said:

I thought it was the executors who were liable for unpaid debts, which is why when a solicitor was the executor they had to wait 6 months for liabilities to show up.  Or were the solicitors acting for the major beneficiaries who were the executors?

That depends, if the executors failed to place a notice in the London Gazette they can be responsible for any debts that crawl out of the woodwork later on. If they had placed the it then responsibility falls on the residual beneficiaries. 

Not sure the Gazette even comes into it, this is a fairly obvious potential creditor - had the executors/solicitors not checked with the care home / council at the time what the state of her account was?

clspg79

The executors/solicitors are waiting for the file to come out of storage now, we shall see if that helps. The TELL US ONCE service should have included local authority. Thanks again all.