EDF storage heaters night rate not activating.

molerat

OpolE said:

molerat said:

You have a relay triggered from the meter so the possibilities are either your meter is no longer on a 2 rate tariff for some reason or the trigger / relay has failed.

Are you saying you can see something wrong or are you just describing what should be happening when it switches to off-peak night rate?

Can't see anything, just describing what the problem could be.  Your off peak consumer unit coming live is triggered by that thin wire going from the bottom of the meter to the second little box below the meter.  If that circuit / relay has failed then your heaters won't work.

Is your water heating overnight without Boost / on peak selected ?

TheElectricCow has posted a good suggestion to check whether that circuit is working.

lohr500

You described activating the storage heaters in your original post as follows 

NEW Problem: I turned on my night rate for storage heaters and they aren't activating. I try my "all day any time button" and it starts heating up. I tested this for 4 days and reset the fuses in the fuse box. I have 2 storage heaters that are not conforming like the previous years.

Are you dong this using the method described in the TheElectricCow's reply?

If so then TheElectricCow is spot on.    The problem will be a configuration issue with the meter which is something only EDF can rectify. They may have pushed an incorrect configuration update to the meter when/if your tariff rates changed.

OpolE

TheElectricCow said:

Your meter should have a boost function to activate the off-peak circuit during the day by pressing the grey B button twice. First press should make it say “Boost?” with a yes/no option.

If the off-peak circuit activates with this then you’ll know that the equipment is functioning and it’ll most likely be a configuration issue on EDFs end.

Boost function does not work. Say's "Not Available". I have attempted this in the day rate and also in the night rate.
I believe I heard a little click at 10:34 which someone mentioned here.

What next?

Scot_39

Edit 1: 

"Your meter installation - looks sensible enough albiet as others have pointed out - using a 4 port meter with an auxiliary load switch relay / constactor module - to swith the off-peak time only supply  (the Proteus white box below the meter - with the LL 24/7 feed and contactor control wire going in the bottom - and in theory the time switched supply - on the LLL terminal coming out of the top - which should then feed the e7 consumer unit.)

And looks to be c 3 years old (2020)"

So as above

Firstly - does the meter still work as e7 - both / two rate registers accumulating at the relevant times ?

Warning if so it might be difficult to get supplier to send a meter fitter out to check without checking your own  wiring.  

Edit:

Some supplier operators - EDF included from posts here - operate on the basis - if the computer says it's right - it's someone elses problem - and will take persisitant pressure to progress beyond that.

Meter alcs timing and tariff register timing can it seems even become mismatched in configuration updates from rare posts here.  

Edit : Not sure if that was your IHD 1 hr problem - or the simple fact that the IHD typically adapts to show clock time - whereas the E7 meter generally switches GMT regardless (although the smets spec allows in theory it to move with clock - its one of the confuration switches in govt spec - it's certainly not doing so on my smart meter).  You appear to be in one of the regions - that supports dual split e7 - on 2+5 hour slot basis - typically GMT 10:30-12:30 and 02:30 to 07:30 iirc - or one hour later on DST / BST clock time in summer.  But others in the same region - even with same let alone different suppliers could be on a single 7 hr block - and some - iirc a SSE user - was given the choice - and able to switch again when it was accidently changed with an over the air update.

As a first step I'd be measuring the internal wiring and or meter cabinet LLL feed tail - in that case with a non contact voltage detector pen.

Ones we had at work weren't as cheap as some - but iirc they start around £10-15 retail from diy stores iirc.

If you get no joy with getting a quick supplier visit to check meter / contactor operation - you might want - even need - to get an electrician in to check all the internal wiring - and use their report to help force a visit (get it in writing / email - and forward to supplier).

Edit ~ Need you to better Explain

I turned on my night rate for storage heaters and they aren't activating. I try my "all day any time button" and it starts heating up. I tested this for 4 days and reset the fuses in the fuse box. I have 2 storage heaters that are not conforming like the previous years.

What do you mean by turning on your night rate ?

Are you saying you had the isolator switch and/or the individual MCBs in the second consumer unit with only 3 MCB's switched off over summer ?

Did you switch them off deliberately - or did they trip ?

Are you saying you are in the habit of switching the device feeds off at the consumer unit - and not simply at the switched spur supply points ?

You referred to testing using day time boost mode - and talk about "it" heating up - are you purely talking about hot water ?  If so - and you are talking about a boost cricuit feeding a second element in hot water tank - for now - you might want to only use that after your lower rate kicks in - assuming it still does.

And if talking about NSH - given your pictures only show one feed - one clearly labelled off-peak - how does the heater get live power - are they in fact dual powered - off peak and peak circuits wired into units - or is that using the meter boost refered to above - which iirc you then said - does not work in another post.

And why did you have to reset fuses (I assume you mean MCBs) ?

Are you saying you have more than two storage heaters and only 2 are failing - as I cannot see the MCB's to feed them ?

Also I think you might be under the impression that the electricity company has a bigger responsibility than they do.  And so they might well presume any fault - is say in the consumer unit / internal wiring - rather than the meter / contactor - hence the comment about needing a potential visit - at your expense - from an electrician.

TheElectricCow

OpolE said:

TheElectricCow said:

Your meter should have a boost function to activate the off-peak circuit during the day by pressing the grey B button twice. First press should make it say “Boost?” with a yes/no option.

If the off-peak circuit activates with this then you’ll know that the equipment is functioning and it’ll most likely be a configuration issue on EDFs end.

Boost function does not work. Say's "Not Available". I have attempted this in the day rate and also in the night rate.
I believe I heard a little click at 10:34 which someone mentioned here.

What next?

Not necessarily a problem, it seems like your electrics could just not be set up to make use of the on board meter boost button (there can be a lot of variety in E7 setups especially where older systems have been switched to use smart meters).

The little click at 10:34 does suggest that the off-peak circuit is energising though, or at least the switch that controls this circuit is still switching. So we can assume the big grey box with the EDF sticker below the meter is functioning and attempting to turn on the night rate supply.

This does suggest the fault could be with something between the storage heaters and the meter as we know both of those are working to some extent, but it’s hard to know for sure without proper testing. 

Can you tell us any more about the "all day any time button" you said got them to start working? This sounds like some form of boost button which is working and powers the heaters, so if we can work out what it’s doing on the circuit that may narrow down where the problem is/isn’t a bit further. Does this activate the whole off-peak circuit or just certain appliances?

molerat

The little click at 10:34 does suggest that the off-peak circuit is energising though, or at least the switch that controls this circuit is still switching. So we can assume the big grey box with the EDF sticker below the meter is functioning and attempting to turn on the night rate supply.

Could that not just be the meter though - there must at least be a low current relay in there - so the Proteus relay could still be faulty ?  

Without some proper fault diagnosis and a firm "this is what is wrong / not working" op is going to have difficulty convincing the supplier that the fault is on their side.

OpolE

@Scot_39
@TheElectricCow
@molerat

Hi

I'l try to answer as much detail as I can. I've read all questions but some repeats are answered here or I left ones I can't answer

EDF took over my isupplyenergy company in 2020 so yes they put their part in.

My storage heaters worked till turning them off earlier in 2023.

I had my water for shower linked to a digital timer which I believe was also connected to the night rate system.

I noticed my timer was becoming intermittant until it stopped working completely in 2022 and decided to heat the top half of my boiler only for 2 showers a day. It saved me loads of money. I am simply using the immersion button for the top rod in the boiler for about 1 hour. Used to cost 13p for the night rate hour now about 45p.

To answer you queries direct

Firstly - does the meter still work as e7 - both / two rate registers accumulating at the relevant times ?

All I can see is 1 "Credit Mode bo" ticking up pence by pence. I see no display of a night rate or day rate.

You appear to be in one of the regions - that supports dual split e7 

Yes confirmed

What do you mean by turning on your night rate ?

I have a corridor storage heater with (1x button)(Only linked up to the night rate)

I have a living room storage heater with (2x button's)(1 is any time heat NOW and the outher is Only linked up to the night rate)

And why did you have to reset fuses (I assume you mean MCBs) ?

I just flicked every fuse on and off in my flat for peace of mind.

Can you tell us any more about the "all day any time button" you said got them to start working? This sounds like some form of boost button which is working and powers the heaters, so if we can work out what it’s doing on the circuit that may narrow down where the problem is/isn’t a bit further. Does this activate the whole off-peak circuit or just certain appliances?

(Attached Photo)

ArbitraryRandom

Can you try pressing the A button on your meter?

I think it should cycle to 'Rate 01 Act Imp' - this is usually your night or 'off-peak' reading - then pressing it again should show 'Rate 02 Act Imp' - this is usually your day or 'peak' reading. 

Scot_39

Your meter was displaying the default "Rate 01 act(ive) Imp" and reading in kWh in your first photo - as I suspect you took the initial photo in day mode - 6577 kWh ?.

The old meter clearly had 2 rates as visible on change record labels - and suspect they wouldn't ever have fitted the auxiliary contactor in 2020 on a single rate meter.

This you tube video shows how to toggle the reading between rate 01 (day?) and 02 (night?) (note the question marks - there is no one standard) - using the B (holding for 10sec) and then A button - which seems to match your model

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6uegO688PQ

That person had theirs fitted by EOn - but thats unlikely to change meter operation.

But I suspect it would probably revert to off peak rate register reading - again in kWh - at the off peak times anyway.

Thanks for the photo showing the NSH has two feeds - the first phots only showed the RHS / off peak I guess.

OpolE

Ok I see both of them now.

Any other checks needed or is it looking like I need an electrician?