EV owners: question about EV charging

oldernonethewiser

Grumpy_chap said:

oldernonethewiser said:

On long journeys I only stop for a comfort break or two so maybe 15 minutes max at a time.  If I had to wait longer for the car to charge then that would change my driving times considerably I would imagine.

I am very tempted by an EV but have no option for home charging currently so not going to happen - yet.

On a recent charge stop, we pulled up, plugged in and then went for a coffee.  
There was no queue but we had not even completed paying for our coffee when the car texted to say we had enough charge to complete our journey without stopping again.
We had not finished our coffee when the text came through to say the car was fully charged.
I moved the car from the charger station, then went back in for the toilet break before setting off again.
Certainly were not delayed in the slightest by the charging time.

By way of comparison, the journey was longer than we can do without fuel in the Fiesta so that would have been the same break time (coffee, toilet) plus extra time at the pump.

That's impressive. 

It's the lack of home charging that really puts it out of practical reach for me.  That and I don't drink coffee

forgotmyname

So this brings on a new problem with EV's....  Can the local water works cope with all the EV drivers who stop for a coffee?

Watched the video with the BMW and Taycan, as with most things you probably need to read between the lines to
find the full facts. The truth is probably somewhere inbetween.

One charger stating power reduced due to overdemand would be a worry as would the current insurance costs.
Just done a quote on a Tesla Model 3 and it would be £187.32 more expensive than my current car.

A lot more investment needs to happen to install more chargers than they have petrol pumps.

ididgetwhereiamtoday

Tesla model 3 is the way to go to beat range anxiety. The supercharger network is superb and the cars are very good. Used Long range models are available for around 24k and will only get cheaper over the next year. 

force_ten1

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

Tesla model 3 is the way to go to beat range anxiety. The supercharger network is superb and the cars are very good. Used Long range models are available for around 24k and will only get cheaper over the next year. 

l am not a fan of tesla and l personally see them as the Apple of the car world with a replace rather than repair ethos which doesn't sit well with me but that aside 

there was a record set by 3 lads in a Tesla model 3 long range and they drove the 855.2 miles from john o'groats to land's end in a total time of 15 hours and 32 minutes, they only needed four stops to charge and spent a total of 1 hour 32 minutes and 32 seconds charging

now three of the charge stops were at ionity chargers open to any EV and one stop was at a Tesla charger that may exclude some EVs at present, so in reality this could have been done in any long range EV, now this record has been broken by one guy in a Tesla model S long range and he did use all Tesla superchargers but he shaved a small amount off the total elapsed time and a small amount off the total time taken to charge 

now somebody in an lCE car driving that distance would probably have to stop three times and you could easily spend 1 hour 30 minutes on toilet breaks food breaks and at least one fuel stop, unless you were in a diesel car with an extended range tank 

so there are people that probably waste more than 1 hour 30 minutes withering and whinging about how the charge network is non existent and if you do find a charger it will either be in use or broken and then go on to tell you that EVs are rubbish and they are not the future. and there are people that plan ahead and make it work    

LightFlare

All well and good -- but that's with a long range battery (how many actually have that)

How quickly does the "average" EV take to charge compared to a Tesla on its own dedicated fast charge network

Not saying that it cant be done , but in practice (the real world) how achievable would that be to what % of EV owners 

You will NEVER be quicker than an ICE that has far superior range and dramatically faster and more convenient refueling, but it needs to be a real and honest comparison

For example - twice a year we drive from the top of the North West down to the South West coast in a Diesel. I can do that journey with NO refuelling stop and usually just 1 (sometimes 2) quick comfort breaks.

How comparable would that be in an average EV using none dedicated chargers ?

I guess my viewpoint is:

Are EVs better for short/return to base journeys --- maybe
Are EVs better for long journeys that require "refuelling" -- probably not, but by how much.

 And I think that requires a lot more real life data from wider sources - lets face it, this is a topic where people will be in one camp or the other and will have strong opinions - but what is the reality for the "average" motorist

tripled

LightFlare said:

All well and good -- but that's with a long range battery (how many actually have that)

How quickly does the "average" EV take to charge compared to a Tesla on its own dedicated fast charge network

Not saying that it cant be done , but in practice (the real world) how achievable would that be to what % of EV owners 

You will NEVER be quicker than an ICE that has far superior range and dramatically faster and more convenient refueling, but it needs to be a real and honest comparison

For example - twice a year we drive from the top of the North West down to the South West coast in a Diesel. I can do that journey with NO refuelling stop and usually just 1 (sometimes 2) quick comfort breaks.

How comparable would that be in an average EV using none dedicated chargers ?

I guess my viewpoint is:

Are EVs better for short/return to base journeys --- maybe
Are EVs better for long journeys that require "refuelling" -- probably not, but by how much.

 And I think that requires a lot more real life data from wider sources - lets face it, this is a topic where people will be in one camp or the other and will have strong opinions - but what is the reality for the "average" motorist

I have a Renault Zoe, which has a 52kWh battery and can charge at up to 50kW, with a range of roughly 200 miles, a little less at motorway speeds. It's not the most capable of EVs, for example, the newer Megane can charge at up to 130kW and has a 60kW battery with around a 250 mile range (again probably a bit less at motorway speeds) and would be more suitable for long journeys.

If you take Manchester to Bournemouth, Google maps says it's 250 miles. That would be one 15-20 minute stop for me at a rapid charging hub with a Renault Zoe. You could make it slowly without a stop in a Megane, but realistically you don't want lorries up your chuff the whole way, at motorway speeds a 5-10 mins top-up would probably do the trick. By the time you've had your comfort break, it would be done.

Penrith to Bournemouth would be 345 miles. Just about doable with one stop in my Zoe, but would probably be charging for over an hour to fill up the battery, two 20-30 min stops would work better. A Megane would do it comfortably with a single half hour stop, or a couple of 10-15 minute comfort breaks.

Penrith to Penzance, 440 miles, so two 45 min stops in my Zoe, in a Megane you'd probably want a couple of 20-25 minute stops, so slightly longer comfort breaks.

If you can charge at home all year and only make occasional long distance trips, modern EVs are capable enough to cope well (and money saving too, mine costs around 2.5p/mile charged at home, whereas my diesel is around 13p/mile). If you regularly make long distance trips or tow, apart from perhaps a handful of the top-end cars, they are not really mature enough yet (unless someone else is paying for the time and charging!).

Herzlos

LightFlare said:

...
You will NEVER be quicker than an ICE that has far superior range and dramatically faster and more convenient refueling, but it needs to be a real and honest comparison

For example - twice a year we drive from the top of the North West down to the South West coast in a Diesel....

Bingo. I think the key part here is "twice a year".

An EV will never be more convenient than an ICE vehicle for a high speed long distance run. In a diesel you can always have a 2 min stop at a layby to pee and change drivers before setting off again, but in an EV you need to stop somewhere with a charger and wait at least 10 mins for a meaningful charge.

I've personally found that after about 3 hours driving I need a break anyway.

BUT. That's a rare use case and really over emphasized by the anti-EV folks. For 2 main reasons:
1. Virtually no-one does long distance drives like that. Most people will stop every few hours for a coffee/food/comfort break at a services or tourist spot, where they can charge as they do stuff.
2. The vast majority of mileage is local, IIRC it's less than 15 miles.


Do you buy a car purely to do the annual holiday in a single run?

For most people, you'd either adjust your route and timing so you stop to charge somewhere and have a more pleasant experience, or you hire an ICE for that trip, or in a multi-car household you keep an ICE in the fleet.

boxosox

alan_d said:

Plenty of info about, but watch this for starters!

That first video was 11 minutes of a man endlessly repeating himself ("12 hours until fully charged.  So, fully charged in 12hrs.  So that's 12 hours.  Until charged.  Fully charged") interspersed with tonnes of adverts. 

Seemed rather contrived just for clicks, but I get the point.

boxosox

saveallmymoney said:

Baffled by these responses. I've had a 200ish mile range EV since 2017 (2 different ones). I just set the Sat Nav where i want to go. Been to Paris, Edinburgh, Cornwall all over really. The car tells me when to stop and for how long, never more than about 20 minutes, just enough time for a pee, it's never directed me to a faulty charger.

Oh, but it is a Tesla :-)

I understand Teslas have the best charging network etc., but I buy a car mainly with my heart and I could never buy a Tesla, regardless of how great the range/charging is.

boxosox

Grumpy_chap said:

boxosox said:

I did a drive from Guildford to Glasgow yesterday, so was aware that I would probably have had to stop two or three times adding around 1.5hrs to my journey time of 7hrs which would have been tedious.

Why would the stops add 1.5 hours to the 7 hour journey?
On a 7 hour journey, I would be stopping regardless for comfort and refreshment breaks.
Charge at the same time and there is no increase in the overall journey time.

I don't have an EV, so I'm only guessing that over a 430 mile journey in a car with a (claimed) range of 230 miles, I'd have to stop for 2x 40min charges, so 1hr 20 -ish.

I've just got home and, in my case, I stopped once on the way there and once on the way back for about 10 mins.  Enough time to use the toilet, get some lunch and a coffee.  So charging would add well over an hour each way.