Management company's rights

JuzaMum

I own a flat in a block which is currently tenanted. The managing agents have informed all owners that we need a fire door inspection. This is fine, I suspect the current door will need upgrading which I am happy to do. They have set a date for the inspection and demanded access to all flats in the block. My tenant is in full time employment and may not be able to be present. I am also not able to spend a day at the flat waiting around. The managing agents want us to hand over keys which we do not wish to do. Is it reasonable to demand access for a full day (if a time slot was given I would endeavour to be present) and can they charge flat owners if they are not able to provide access on the day stated which is less than a month away. This is an extract of the letter:-

"The aim is to determine the existence and quality of the buildings fire stopping measures in the

protected escape route and to ascertain if the fire door sets are suitable and meet the required

standards to ensure the integrity of the protected escape route and maintain the desired fire

protection rating for the building.

The inspector will be on site on Tuesday 28th November 2023 and will need access to each of

the apartments to undertake the inspections of the front doors (or doors that form part of the

escape route). These inspections should take no longer than 30 minutes per door.

It is essential that access is provided at this time, if you are not available then please plan for a

keyholder to provide access on your behalf and let us have details in advance. Specific times

cannot be allocated but every effort will be made to accommodate any special circumstances.

If you are not a full-time occupier or your flat is sub-let, please communicate all the above to your

letting agents and/or tenants. Please be aware that if access cannot be granted on the day a future

visit will be necessary which will attract a further fee for which you will be liable."

Thanks for reading

born_again

Clearly someone is going to be there, can this person not take the keys for anyone that is unable to be there?

DullGreyGuy

So you have a leasehold flat and the freeholders managing agent is ensuring the building is meeting code which they have a legal obligation to do. 

Seems fairly straight forward, arrange for a key holder to be there or agree the fee for them to visit another time. We had a similar letter but were able to ignore it as our door opens onto our garden and then the street so not covered by the rules but the letter did state the fee for a visit at another time. 

[Deleted User]

I recently sold a flat, I had a similar letter from the Management Company. They wanted proof the front door was FD30 or me to change it, they mentioned about visiting to inspect, I ignored the letters.

When I looked into it a bit more, they couldn't do anything if I denied them access or inspection. As far as I was aware they just had to be seen to be doing the right thing and documenting it. They can't force a flat owner to be in or there for them to inspect a door, people are very busy and have lives.

As regards the fee, one thing I've learnt is that management companies can do pretty well much what they like. I do think it's unreasonable to hand over a key to them for a day, I'd ask them for a timeslot.

I sold my flat because the service charge fees, lease extension fees and the management company in general were disgraceful.

JuzaMum

I wouldn't be happy to give the keys to my home to a stranger, so don't expect my tenant to do so. I wonder about the legality of fee charging if they cannot gain access (my tenant is going to ask for time off work so they can be home, but may not be able to get it). I'm sure the door does not meet current standards and have already asked what standards I need to meet as I am very happy to meet these (the freeholders/management company did not know!). I want my tenant to be safe in their home.

eddddy

JuzaMum said:

I wonder about the legality of fee charging if they cannot gain access 

Looking at this pragmatically, if the inspector can't gain access and has to visit again to do the inspection - who do you feel should pay for the second visit?

If you don't have to pay, the cost will have to come from Service Charge Funds - so it will be shared across all flat owners.

So if other flat owners missed appointments (perhaps repeatedly) would you be happy to contribute towards the cost of their re-visits?



But if you want to be sure - check your lease to see what it says about giving access to the freeholder. 

If the lease says you must give access - you will be breaching the lease if you refuse. In that case, the law says that the freeholder can charge you reasonable costs resulting from your breach - like the cost of a re-visit.

Richard1212

This scenario seems to occur so regularly with the flats I own. It causes no problems unless the tenant is adamant that he/she cannot allow inspection on the specified date-----and he/she has every right to set his/her own time and date so long as it is reasonable : no-one has to meekly accept such timing demands of Fire Inspector. He/she has every right to say "sorry, not today, but I'm happy with { a date and time not too far past original date} "  and negotiate a suitable date/time. Fire Inspectors have no power to do as suggested----not even the landlord can gain entry without arranging a reasonable time/date which is convenient to both landlord AND tenant. Fire Inspectors' letters often make it sound as though they have rights that they do not have. I know tenants dislike their general high-handed approach.

In practice, the above need to shift the date best suited because Inspector is on the site all that day, does not really need to happen. Most tenants are happy to fit in with all the other residents on the development  : there are not many residents who cannot hand their keys to a relative, friend or ( if your development has one) the residential development manager who lives on site in one of the flats ; and the key-holder must be trusted to stay in the flat whilst all the inspection is being carried out.

The latest fire regulations seems to involve "shaving" the bottom of tenants' front door so that it cannot be left open without banging shut by itself------personally I think the gap which that creates between the floor and the door not only causes draughts but will ensure the ingress of smoke in the event of a fire outside in communal area etc ! 

I'm sure an amicable compromise can be achieved. 

MultiFuelBurner

I think you just need to make yourself available for the day for this, but if inconvenience. However if your tenants is willing to take a day off then take this as a win.

R3dders

We have just gone through the same process with our 50 apartments.  Fortunately our management company are quite reasonable.  The date I was given was the first day of a 6 week holiday so I declined to hand over my key.  They said they didn't expect to complete every apartment in one go so provided another day a few months later. Is there a possibility of a breach of your lease if access cannot be gained ?.  Out of 50 apartments only one actually passed the inspection and each owner received a quote of between £100-£500 to remedy the issues and the communal areas were about £8000 which obviously will have to be met by all the owners.  Fortunately the issues with the doors were shared amongst us so I have hopefully improved my door to meet the required standard when it is assessed next week.  Once they are happy that the door meets the required standard they will issue a certificate of conformity.