Help me to decide if paying almost £1000 for a diesel hob in my van is a good (MSE) investment

ThisIsWeird

QrizB said:

For anyone who is interested, here is the Espar Combihob.

https://eberspacherdirect.com/espar-combihob/

Espar / Eberspacher are a big name in vehicle heating, and the Combihob appears to have a dedicated external air inlet and exhaust, much like Espar's diesel heaters do. The risk of the van user asphyxiating themselves should be low, provided it is installed correctly.

Wow, neat! And no moisture produced from combustion?
Does it get hot enough for all types of cooking? Stir-frying?

QrizB

ThisIsWeird said:

QrizB said:

GervisLooper said:

Gas I worked out costs around £312 per year for using it to cook one hour per day average. I worked this out as I pay around £2 per 220g gas cartridge for a camping stove and they last me about 3 cooks at an hour a day.

So, with gas, you're using 70g (0.07kg) an hour, 67p a day.

A kilogram of gas contains about 12kWh/kg, so 0.07kg is 900 watt-hours. If you use that in an hour, that's an average of 900 watts - which is within the typical range for a single, small gas burner.

Andy_L said:

Its £28 for 6kg of propane, not £40 (so ~1/2 the price of the 220g bottles) ETA:  which will make a big difference to your break-even calculation
https://www.calor.co.uk/lpg-prices

That's £4.67 per kg, so 70g would cost 33p.

GervisLooper said:

Lpg is cheaper than normal gas at average 80p per litre going off memory ...

A litre of LPG is half a kg, so LPG is £1.60 per kg. 70g would cost 11p.

GervisLooper said:

£1.62 is the price of 1 litre of diesel.

The appliance states that it will consume, at maximum, 0.27 litres per hour of diesel during operation.

But you won't be running it flat out all the time. I would expect you to be running it at 900 watts, ish, the same as your gas stove.

A litre of diesel contains about 10kWh. Running a burner at 900 watts for an hour would use 90ml (0.09 litres) of diesel. If diesel costs £1.62 a litre, 90ml will cost 15p.

To summarise:

On an equivalent energy basis, your cooking costs will be:

• 220g gas cartridges: 67p a day.
• 6kg propane: 33p per day.
• Bulk autogas: 11p per day.
• Diesel: 15p per day.

Compared to 220g cartridges, diesel would save you 52p/day, £190 a year.

Compared to 6kg propane, the saving is 18p a day, £66 a year.

Autogas is 4p/day, £15/yr, cheaper than diesel, which can probably be ignored.

Well, that is surely the 👏 post of the year. 😊

You're far too kind, but thank you anyway!

ThisIsWeird said:

QrizB said:

For anyone who is interested, here is the Espar Combihob.

https://eberspacherdirect.com/espar-combihob/

Espar / Eberspacher are a big name in vehicle heating, and the Combihob appears to have a dedicated external air inlet and exhaust, much like Espar's diesel heaters do. The risk of the van user asphyxiating themselves should be low, provided it is installed correctly.

Wow, neat! And no moisture produced from combustion?

No, all the combustion gases should go out via the exhaust.

ThisIsWeird said:

Does it get hot enough for all types of cooking? Stir-frying?

I've no experience of the Combihob, but would hazard a guess that it will perform rather like a domestic ceramic hob. You'd be able to deep- or shallow-fry, but stir-frying might be tricky evn if you've got a wok with a flat base.

ThisIsWeird

QrizB said:

Wow, neat! And no moisture produced from combustion?
No, all the combustion gases should go out via the exhaust.

I mean from the actual combustion. A bare gas flame produces moisture which would surely be inside the 'van? Probably not anything of consequence, tho' - certainly compared to that released from boiling rice - but the diesel hob exhausts everything from the combustion process outside.

QrizB

ThisIsWeird said:

QrizB said:

Wow, neat! And no moisture produced from combustion?
No, all the combustion gases should go out via the exhaust.

I mean from the actual combustion. A bare gas flame produces moisture which would surely be inside the 'van?

There is no bare flame inside the van. It's like a room-sealed gas boiler. The diesel burns inside a closed combustion chamber, which only has two openings - the air inlet and the exhaust - both of which connect to the outside of the van.

ThisIsWeird

QrizB said:

ThisIsWeird said:

QrizB said:

Wow, neat! And no moisture produced from combustion?
No, all the combustion gases should go out via the exhaust.

I mean from the actual combustion. A bare gas flame produces moisture which would surely be inside the 'van?

There is no bare flame inside the van. It's like a room-sealed gas boiler. The diesel burns inside a closed combustion chamber, which only has two openings - the air inlet and the exhaust - both of which connect to the outside of the van.

That is with a gas burner, tho'. That's my point - this diesel hob/heater will vent all combustion products outside. A gas hob won't - it has a bare flame inside the 'van.
But I guess the moisture from a gas burner is minimal.

GervisLooper

Hey guys should I feel guilty about burning diesel every day for heating and cooking?

I suddenly started to get moral pangs about using this is a main fuel source for everyday use compared to say autogas/lpg which is being encouraged as a greener alternative to regular gas.

I wonder is the question moot since running diesel engine anyway`to drive or is it an every little helps thing. I will note I drive very little so not using diesel every day at the moment.

I wonder if this should be a consideration if one is morally inclined and believes global warming is a thing and not a "scam made by the globalist elite to take our hard earned money in the form of taxes".

ThisIsWeird

Man-Made Global Warming is not a scam or conspiracy theory, as far as I understand. I talk as an ex-cynic, won over by the mass of scientific evidence, delivered by an overwhelming number of respected scientists.
But, I would personally have little moral concern from that wee hob and even winter heating.
It's max output is 2.2kW. Compare that cooking and heating load with just about any normal house. You sound pretty darned green to me.

Would you like to share some more about your 'van? Really curious . Is it a home conversion? Well insulated? Are you parked up or mobile - or both?  How roomy is it? Do you enjoy the lifestyle?

GervisLooper

ThisIsWeird said:

Man-Made Global Warming is not a scam or conspiracy theory, as far as I understand. I talk as an ex-cynic, won over by the mass of scientific evidence, delivered by an overwhelming number of respected scientists.
But, I would personally have little moral concern from that wee hob and even winter heating.
It's max output is 2.2kW. Compare that cooking and heating load with just about any normal house. You sound pretty darned green to me.

Would you like to share some more about your 'van? Really curious . Is it a home conversion? Well insulated? Are you parked up or mobile - or both?  How roomy is it? Do you enjoy the lifestyle?

I have been living in it full time for about 4-5 months having given up paying about £900 per month for rent and associated flat costs in the centre of a city.

It is a standard ford van I am converting.

I am just parked on my mums drive at the moment so just sleeping there and working on it and researching.

I plan for it to be a stop gap between buying some land, which is proving challenging for a small parcel >1 acre.

Too early to say if I enjoy the life. I am enjoying the money saved and the work I am doing on it is engaging and certainly interesting learning about all this stuff.

Someone commented elsewhere that I could also use biodiesel to assuage my conscience while still using diesel. What are the laws around that these days? Making it oneself would be really cool if practically viable.

I only remember in the 90s my mum used to tell me that people run their cars off of vegetable oil but it was somehow not officially allowed and they had to modify the engines to take it.

ThisIsWeird

I can't answer much of that, I'm afraid.

So you are converting the van yourself? Cool. Lots of insulation...?!

QrizB

GervisLooper said:

Hey guys should I feel guilty about burning diesel every day for heating and cooking?

For cooking, it seems that you will be using less than a litre a week (unless having a shiny new stove makes you change your dining habits). I don't think that's a huge addition to your carbon footprint.

Heating will depend on the weather and how well you insulate, but if you use a litre a day for three months of the year that's still only 90 litres. About the same as driving your van for 3-400 miles?

GervisLooper said:

I only remember in the 90s my mum used to tell me that people run their cars off of vegetable oil

I had a 1993 Renault that would run quite happily on Tesco vegetable oil. At the time diesel was £1 a litre and veg oil was 65p, so I was happy!

Fuel and veg oil prices have risen somewhat since then and modern diesel vehicles are a lot less tolerant of odd fuels. I wouldn't want to try it on a vehicle built this century.

Making biodiesel is quite an involved process and uses some nasty chemicals. It's not a casual undertaking.