John Lewis Charlotte Sofa - poor quality and no win situation to rectify

mmandyk

After a series of telephone calls to JL regarding 6 week old sagging leather sofas we have been told to either put up or return!  To return leaves me with no sofas for 10-15 weeks an inconvenience to me the customer or put up with a sofa which does not hold its form, has insufficient and sub standard filling which fails to fill the cushion slip and leave the leather gaping and sagging after single use.

JL employed 'independent' technician who inspects merely follows the manufacturers specifications which are not fit for purpose if a sofa has to be plumped and dress after every single use. The said technician agreed that the sofa should not be filled with fibre on the seat but with foam and fibre rap to give it stability to support the leather.

 

The visual images of the sofa online do not represent the product that is delivered and according to one of their aftersales teams comments ' what you expect is up to personal expectation' - I expect to get the product in the image or something similar to the product of view in the store.  After saying that I have sat on the cloth sofa in store which has not been left with sagging cushions, I was advised that JL staff plump everything up after someone has sat in it!  Nothing on the website or in store states that customers should note that the material contained in the sofa will require constant plumping and dressing in order to preserve the overall appearance of the sofa - who buy something that requires this amount of effort.  I want to sit in the sofa not look at it!

 

The price point of the sofas purchased is well above any other high street store and most definitely does match the quality and standards attributed to such a high cost.

 

I have been offered the option to pay the manufacturer additional money for the sofa to be filled so that it fills the seams and cushion covers!! JL refusing to pay or contribute because it meets the flawed specifications.

 

As a customer you are in a no win situation - all we want is a sofa that is fit to sit on without sagging and looking like its 10 years old - clearly something JL are unwilling to consider.  You can't even put a review on the leather sofas probably because of the number of complaints they get and the choice from JL to gas light their customers.

 

If you want a sagging sofa after 6 weeks with lumps and bumps and happy to fork out over £3k then this is the sofa for you!!!

munchpot

If the sofa is faulty then John Lewis should refund you. It appears that they have offered you a refund, or the option to pay the manufacturer for additional filling.  If that's the case then they are putting you back to the position you were in before the purchase, i.e. with a refund so fulfilling their consumer rights obligations

You can either reject it for the refund or ask them to repair. It's their decision whether they repair or replace. They seem to have opted for the refund option

Aylesbury_Duck

Not a consumer rights matter because JL have offered a solution.  It's better suited to the Praise, Vents and Warning section of the forum.

If you return the sofa for a refund, there are places you can buy sofas from immediately, or try one of the charity furniture shops to see if you can buy a cheap one to bridge the gap between this one going back and a new one arriving.  It's an inconvenience but not the end of the world.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Providing a refund doesn't fulfil consumer rights.

OP you have the right to a replacement or repair, if they refuse (for whatever reason) you then have the choice between a refund or a price reduction.

If you otherwise like the sofa and wish to keep it I would advise JL as they are refusing to honour their obligation to provide a repair you are seeking your right to a price reduction of £x to have the sofa filled so that it conforms to the contract. 

Letter before action if they refuse, right to a price reduction is covered here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/24

If JL disagree the sofa doesn't conform it's for them to prove (on the balance of probability). 

Bradden

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Providing a refund doesn't fulfil consumer rights.

OP you have the right to a replacement or repair, if they refuse (for whatever reason) you then have the choice between a refund or a price reduction.

If you otherwise like the sofa and wish to keep it I would advise JL as they are refusing to honour their obligation to provide a repair you are seeking your right to a price reduction of £x to have the sofa filled so that it conforms to the contract. 

Letter before action if they refuse, right to a price reduction is covered here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/24

If JL disagree the sofa doesn't conform it's for them to prove (on the balance of probability). 

I thought the retailer had the right to choose whether to refund or repair not the other way round?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Bradden said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Providing a refund doesn't fulfil consumer rights.

OP you have the right to a replacement or repair, if they refuse (for whatever reason) you then have the choice between a refund or a price reduction.

If you otherwise like the sofa and wish to keep it I would advise JL as they are refusing to honour their obligation to provide a repair you are seeking your right to a price reduction of £x to have the sofa filled so that it conforms to the contract. 

Letter before action if they refuse, right to a price reduction is covered here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/24

If JL disagree the sofa doesn't conform it's for them to prove (on the balance of probability). 

I thought the retailer had the right to choose whether to refund or repair not the other way round?

In the first instance the consumer has a right to a repair or replacement (unless impossible and the consumer can't pick a replacement if it would be disproportionately costly compared to a repair and vice versa).

However if the retailer simply refuses the next step is reject or price reduction so the retailer can effectively make a choice by failing in their obligations.

With the final step it's the consumer's choice between reject for a refund/seek a price reduction as far as the regs go, I haven't seen anything to suggest the retailer can stipulate a preference  

A price reduction makes sense in some circumstances, such a tech item containing data or something sentimental like a wedding ring which can be repaired but the retailer is refusing, whereas for something boring like a fridge it might be better to just reject. 

In OP's case it really depends what they want, if the sofa fits size wise, looks how they want, etc, etc and it's just some stuffing missing which they can easily arrange at a fair price the only tricky bit might be getting JL to acknowledge that right, it might be off script for the first line of CS but you'd hope higher levels of CS would agree without quibble. 

Okell

Bradden said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Providing a refund doesn't fulfil consumer rights.

OP you have the right to a replacement or repair, if they refuse (for whatever reason) you then have the choice between a refund or a price reduction.

If you otherwise like the sofa and wish to keep it I would advise JL as they are refusing to honour their obligation to provide a repair you are seeking your right to a price reduction of £x to have the sofa filled so that it conforms to the contract. 

Letter before action if they refuse, right to a price reduction is covered here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/24

If JL disagree the sofa doesn't conform it's for them to prove (on the balance of probability). 

I thought the retailer had the right to choose whether to refund or repair not the other way round?

My understanding is that if the consumer requires the retailer either to repair or replace the goods (the consumer's choice which) then the retailer must do what the consumer asks for unless (a) what the consumer is asking is impossible, or (b) what the consumer is asking is "disproportionate" to the "other" (singular) of those remedies.

So the consumer has the right to choose between either repair or replacement.  So long as their choice is not impossible the retailer must comply unless (a) if the consumers choice is repair, repair is "disproportionate" to replacement, or (b) if the consumer's choice is replacement, replacement is "disproportionate" to repair.

According to the wording of the Act, the retailer doesn't have any choice except insofar as they can argue that repair is "disproportonate" to replacement, or vice versa.

Bradden

Thanks... @Okell @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head ... i've learned something today.

PHK

The point I think people are missing is that it's the specification the OP is unhappy with.  There is nothing to repair and a replacement would be the same.

Fibre or feather filled sofas are soft and designed for you to sink into.  Like cushions or pillows they need plumping up. These seem to be quite popular nowadays. 

In the circumstances a repair or replacement would not help the OP, so the only option is a refund that they can use towards a different sofa. 

There is also the question of how it was sold but by putting the OP back in the position before the purchase then I think John Lewis are probably doing enough.

Grumpy_chap

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Providing a refund doesn't fulfil consumer rights.

OP you have the right to a replacement or repair, if they refuse (for whatever reason) you then have the choice between a refund or a price reduction.

Isn't the issue here that the OP has purchased a sofa and the design of the sofa is a "sink into it" soft cushion that will require regular plumping to maintain shape?

If that is so, there is nothing to repair as such.  Replacement would only mean another sofa of "sink into it" design that will not satisfy the OP's desire.

Changing to a firmer filling would seem to be changing the specification of the sofa away from the "sink into it" design to something else.  

In this circumstance, a refund seems appropriate.
Jumping straight to LBA and small claims might well fail if JL can proffer the defence of having offered a full refund.

gwynlas

Source a temporary sofa from on line marketplace or charity shop to tide you over 16 weeks, some are even offerred free,