Codicil Question re. substituting an executor

Happeebunnee

My father died last month. My mother is listed as executor in my fathers will and she doesn't want to do it and has asked me to take her place. I'm listed as a substitute executor in my fathers will, although I don't live at that address anymore. The will was written using a will writing company 12 years ago and I've just received the original from them today.
Can we add something to the will ourselves to say we've agreed that I'll be the executor? Is it a codicil? If yes are any templates available for us to use? We'll use a solicitor if we have to but I'd prefer to apply for and handle probate myself if I can. That and the last time we went through probate, it was for my partners father, I felt that we did all the work for them, it took years and they made lots of mistakes, because turns out the solicitor we used was a drunk and then they got sacked!  

Brie

Essentially you want to act as your mother's secretary doing all the paperwork and phone calls for her.  I can't see that being a problem to anyone though some organisations might want to see her signed authority for you to act on her behalf.  But even that might not be needed if the will makes it clear that you can be the executor if your mother is "unable or unwilling" or similar wording.  

I can't see that your old/current address is material.  If that mattered then most wills would be compromised!  It's just a way of identifying which Happeebunnee is being referred to and nothing more.  

Sorry for your loss - and that you've seen the worst side of dealing with these matters at a difficult time.

doodling

Hi,

It is not a change to the will (which a codicil would be) - you can't change the nomination of an executor after death.

There are several options:

1. If your mother is willing to sign her name on bits of paper for you as and when required then there is nothing stopping you doing all the work on her behalf - your mother would remain as executor.

2. Your mother could employ a solicitor to do all the work for her (although the odds are he'd still be putting pieces of paper in front of her for her to sign) - your mother would remain as executor..

3. Your mother could renounce her role as executor.  Legally all she needs to do is tell anyone who asks that she has renounced but procedurally the probate office will have a form for that which she will be expected to complete.  What happens after she has renounced will depend on the wording of your fathers will:
--- Some wills identify multiple executors, one renouncing has no effect on the ability of the others to act.
--- Some wills identify an order of priority of executors, the first renouncing causes the next in the list to become executor.
--- Some wills don't have any provision in which case a sole executor renouncing will cause there to be no executor and it will be necessary for someone to apply to be the Administrator of the estate (apply for "Letters of Administration with Will Attached" to be precise).  Who may apply to be Administrator of an estate is detailed on the uk gov website.
--- Some wills might do something else entirely at the whim of whoever wrote them.

Happeebunnee

The will identifies an order of priority of executors, mum is the executor and is renouncing, I'm 2nd place, my cousin is third place. 

Happeebunnee

and the will does indeed state if she is unwilling or unable then I can do it, does that mean I don't need to do anything?

Brie

Happeebunnee said:

and the will does indeed state if she is unwilling or unable then I can do it, does that mean I don't need to do anything?

As doodling said....

3. Your mother could renounce her role as executor.  Legally all she needs to do is tell anyone who asks that she has renounced but procedurally the probate office will have a form for that which she will be expected to complete.  What happens after she has renounced will depend on the wording of your fathers will:

--- Some wills identify an order of priority of executors, the first renouncing causes the next in the list to become executor.

So sounds like it would be handy for her to fill out the probate office document but generally you can just get on with it.

doodling

Hi,

A key question in all of this is what will the executor actually be doing and will probate be required?  If probate isn't required (and it often isn't on the first death of a couple) then you may only need the will, the death certificate and a letter renouncing her executorship from your mother to give you all the authority you need.

Keep_pedalling

Your mother can renounce her powers, and you can take over as back up executor. 

Do you actually need to apply for probate? Often with the first to die it is only required if they owned assets that can’t be released without it such as large sole cash deposits or stocks and shares.

Happeebunnee

I think we do need to apply for probate, the property and the land is actually only in dads name, they are not joint tenants. Even mum thought they were joint tenants and then we found the deeds and oh.  I suspect it's also worth well over the tax threshold. Although I doubt it's over their combined tax threshold. Because it's big and they have a lot of land. No idea of value at all, because it's never been sold, my dad built it. I'm getting valuations this week and next and then I'll apply for probate. But the granny flat (which can't be sold alone because of the planning permission and is built onto the main house) is in my mothers name only. So I guess I get a probate valuation for the house and the land but not the granny flat? But I'll still have to sell it all as a lot. Still hoping I can sort all of this without a solicitor!  But my brother in law is a chartered surveyor and has been full of helpful advice so I may well ask him if I get stuck. 

HobgoblinBT

Sorry for your loss.

A Google search of “renouncing as executor” brings up the UKGov website with form PA15, deed of renunciation, which you should be able to complete on behalf of your mother for her to sign. You then take over as executor and submit the renunciation form with the other papers when submitting probate.

Keep_pedalling

Happeebunnee said:

I think we do need to apply for probate, the property and the land is actually only in dads name, they are not joint tenants. Even mum thought they were joint tenants and then we found the deeds and oh.  I suspect it's also worth well over the tax threshold. Although I doubt it's over their combined tax threshold. Because it's big and they have a lot of land. No idea of value at all, because it's never been sold, my dad built it. I'm getting valuations this week and next and then I'll apply for probate. But the granny flat (which can't be sold alone because of the planning permission and is built onto the main house) is in my mothers name only. So I guess I get a probate valuation for the house and the land but not the granny flat? But I'll still have to sell it all as a lot. Still hoping I can sort all of this without a solicitor!  But my brother in law is a chartered surveyor and has been full of helpful advice so I may well ask him if I get stuck. 

If you found the paper deeds also check with the land registry ownership may have changed at some point and the paper deeds just become historic documents.

https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry