Hire Car, In Scotland, Confused and need advice on what to do next!

driver101010

So, the hirer of the car parked at a retail park in Scotland, but did not realise that there was a restriction on what time of the day he could park there, only that it was for a maximum of 3 hours.. He parked for under 3 hours, but outside of the permitted times (Even though there were no gates or physical restrictions to stop anyone driving in).

He was in a hire car, hired from Enterprise in England, but the parking contravention occurred in Scotland. He is a resident of England.

The Notice to Hirer letter DID NOT include a copy of the hire documents etc as required by schedule 4 of POFA, therefore was appealed on these grounds. However, UKPC have rejected this appeal, and haven't even recognised this in their appeal rejection letter.

I'm confused about whether POFA is applicable in Scotland, and what the next actions should be? Should this now be escalated to POPLA? and would POPLA overturn it on the basis that the documents were not included as per schedule 4 of POFA? I read that if it is escalated to POPLA, that the driver would need to be named, but would this then give UKPC the evidence they need to transfer liability to the driver?

What should be the next steps to take???

Summery of events:

30 AUG 2023 - Contravention occurred
08 SEP 2023 - Enterprise received letter from UKPC
11 SEP 2023 - Enterprise sent me letter informing the hirer of the contravention
11 SEP 2023 - Enterprise sent UKPC letter providing the name of the hirer.
24 SEP 2023 - UKPC sent Notice to Hirer letter
07 OCT 2023 - Appeal sent to UKPC as not compliant with schedule 4 of POFA (Using a slightly modified version of Edna Bashers letter - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69859059#Comment_69859059
23 OCT 2023 - Appeal Rejection letter received from UKPC

Letters:













Please help!

Many thanks!

Driver101010

Coupon-mad

Do not mention in the POPLA appeal that the retail park is in Scotland.  If you do, POPLA might say only the driver can appeal.
DO NOT DO THAT.

Just copy any good NTH POPLA appeal

Search the forum.  Shhhh about Scotland.

driver101010

Hi Coupon Mad, thanks for your reply!

Ok, I'm still a little concerned... this is the guidance from POPLA:

• I have received a charge in Scotland or Northern Ireland. Can POPLA consider appeals in these countries too?

  We can accept appeals from drivers in Scotland and Northern Ireland. If the keeper of the vehicle wasn't driving, then we cannot accept an appeal from them. This is because Scotland and Northern Ireland has a different set of rules to England and Wales.

  In order to appeal to us you must be the driver and you must be named on a Parking Charge Notice or appealing on behalf of someone who meets that criteria. If you submit an appeal to us in your own name, we treat that as you have admitted to being the driver even if you have not admitted that in correspondence with the operator.

Its fairly obvious from the address of the car park, that this was is Scotland. Its an Edinburgh postcode. Surely the people at POPLA would notice this? 

However, can I still appeal as the NTH was not issued correctly, even though I will effectively be admitting to being the driver at the time?

Would this invalidate my appeal?

I dont really want to risk having the POPLA appeal fail due to admittance of driver, and then have to pay the £100 fine, instead of the reduced amount!

Coupon-mad

You aren't a driver in Scotland.

You are a hirer in England.

My advice has not changed.

UncleThomasCobley

You are under no legal obligation to name the driver. If you appeal, you do so as the hirer. The driver and the hirer/keeper are two separate legal entities.

Why do you think you are going to have to reveal the identity of the driver? The PPC have absolutely no idea who the driver is and they are not allowed to "assume" that it is most likely the hirer/keeper.

You are being strung along by the bribe discount being offered. Follow the advice and don't pay a penny, your choice.

Fruitcake

UKPC have issued a PoPLA code to the hirer/lessee.
There is nothing in the rejection letter to say that the hirer/lessee cannot appeal.
There is nothing in the rejection letter to say that only the driver can appeal.
Therefore, the hirer/lessee can appeal to PoPLA.

Use all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES which will include, but not be limited to,

Hirer/lessee not liable. State that a copy of the hire agreement was not included with the NTH.
Not the landowner.
No standing to issue charges in their own name.
Inadequate signage(UKPC signs are always inadequate because the font is too small to read and the £100 charge for breaching Ts and Cs cannot be read from a car length).
Any BPA Failures.

Once the charge has been cancelled, go back to Enterprise and demand your £35 quid back. (Personally I would put the charge in dispute with your card issuer before any money is taken out). Read your hire agreement to see what it says about parking charge notices from unregulated private parking companies.
Point out that UKPC have actually stated they don't issue fines, penalties etcetera, they are not an authority, and no violation occurred. If PCNs from private companies are not included in the hire agreement, then point that out as well. Since there was no traffic violation, UKPC are not an issuing authority, and no fine was ever issued, you should not have been treated as if they were.
State that since the alleged event occurred in Scotland, neither the hire/lease company nor the day-today-keeper (the hirer/lessee) can be held liable, therefore no action was needed by Enterprise. 
Any admin costs incurred by Enterprise's actions are entirely down to their own negligence and lack of understanding of the law, and to charge a hirer/lessee for their own failings is unfair and a breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

UncleThomasCobley

Just for information, it is not just a copy of the "hire agreement" that the PPC has to provide to the hirer. The NtH must include the following:

(a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

(b) a copy of the hire agreement; and

© a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

It's possible that (b) and © are part of the same document. However, there are at least 2 documents that must be supplied together with the NtH for it to comply with PoFA.

Fruitcake

UncleThomasCobley said:

Just for information, it is not just a copy of the "hire agreement" that the PPC has to provide to the hirer. The NtH must include the following:

(a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

(b) a copy of the hire agreement; and

© a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

It's possible that (b) and © are part of the same document. However, there are at least 2 documents that must be supplied together with the NtH for it to comply with PoFA.

Except that the PoFA does not apply in this case. I would mention the lack of all documents in the PoPLA appeal and infer that the PoFA applies, but I would omit any actual mention of the PoFA.

Other opinions are of course available.

Coupon-mad

Yes - no mention of the location being in Scotland.

driver101010

Thanks all for the replies!

I'm assuming, that instead of quoting POFA, I can quote the transport (Scotland) act 2019? Specifically section 104 and 105?

Sorry, not allowed to post a link...


I'll be submitting my POPLA appeal at the weekend when I have a hit more time to get all me evidence in order!

KeithP

driver101010 said:

I'm assuming, that instead of quoting POFA, I can quote the transport (Scotland) act 2019? Specifically section 104 and 105?

You cannot do that. That part of the Act is not yet in effect.

This page suggests 'in 2023', but they are running late due to 'hiccups' at Westminster.