Are Electric Vehicles Worth the Investment?

DrEskimo

As others have said, certainly not something I view as an investment, but yes I am very happy with the performance of the EVs I use.

Both coming up to 8-years old having owned them for the last 5-years and still wouldn't consider going back to ICE.

Stubod

Now the Gov. have pushed back the EV only implementation date by 5 years and given recent bad news regarding insuring EV's, and lack of charging infrastructure and the cost of electric I would certainly not get one!

Martyn1981

The Gov date changes are largely smoke and mirrors to appeal to a minority of their voters. ICE sales by 2030 aren't going to be significant, but the 'old' rule was PHEV only by 2030, and BEV only by 2035. So technically, someone minded to drive on petrol only, was still able to buy a PHEV in 2030, and never plug it in.

Sales of ICEV's have been falling globally since ~2017, with sales of PEV's (plug-in vehicles (BEV's and PHEV's)) now around 15-20%. For the UK, we'll probably be at about 40% BEV and 50% PEV new car sales in the later months of 2025.

So the economics of ICEV's are already starting to go into reverse - you get a virtuous circle of feedbacks, such as economies of scale, as production of a technology increases, and the vicious circle, as production decreases.

Vectis

Petriix said:

The CO2 savings have already offset the manufacture of the battery and most of the rest of the vehicle;

But, how do you even try to calculate that?

Around half of all the electricity put into an EV comes from fossil fuel sources.

Plus, how does anyone really calculate the amount of CO2 etc produced in the mining, transportation etc of the chemicals used in batteries, plus the actual manufacture and transportation of the batteries themselves? These chemicals and batteries are travelling thousands of miles around the world, and they're not going by electric means.

Isn't it all a lot of guesswork and, let's be honest, configured to make the purchaser of an EV feel better about their purchase when compared to an ICE?

Don't get me wrong, I can see a lot of positives with EVs, but I just don't think we should be kidding ourselves that they are some fantastic 'green' alternative.

ComicGeek

Vectis said:

Petriix said:

The CO2 savings have already offset the manufacture of the battery and most of the rest of the vehicle;

But, how do you even try to calculate that?

Around half of all the electricity put into an EV comes from fossil fuel sources.

Plus, how does anyone really calculate the amount of CO2 etc produced in the mining, transportation etc of the chemicals used in batteries, plus the actual manufacture and transportation of the batteries themselves? These chemicals and batteries are travelling thousands of miles around the world, and they're not going by electric means.

Isn't it all a lot of guesswork and, let's be honest, configured to make the purchaser of an EV feel better about their purchase when compared to an ICE?

Don't get me wrong, I can see a lot of positives with EVs, but I just don't think we should be kidding ourselves that they are some fantastic 'green' alternative.

Not sure where you get your figures from re electricity supplies. Most electric car tariffs in the UK are 100% green energy, which also means that the whole house is moved across to green energy as well - that's a big change by itself. And on top of that the average UK grid emissions factor (ie not a specific 100% renewable energy tariff) has plummeted over the last decade anyway.

Most studies that I've seen have the EV offsetting the higher manufacturing emissions of the battery within 4 years when using standard UK grid emissions factors and average mileage of circa 7000 miles/yr, and assuming the replacement of a conventional ICE (ie not including the manufacturing emissions of the ICE). Those with 100% green energy tariffs, or those buying a new EV rather than a new ICE, will get to the offset value quicker than this.

Not the panacea to cure all ills, but has to be a good stepping stone to better things. If we didn't do things because they aren't 100% perfect nothing would happen.

But I am glad our company pays the insurance - £600 increase on each EV this year, despite an increased £1k excess!

Martyn1981

Vectis said:

Petriix said:

The CO2 savings have already offset the manufacture of the battery and most of the rest of the vehicle;

But, how do you even try to calculate that?

Around half of all the electricity put into an EV comes from fossil fuel sources.

Plus, how does anyone really calculate the amount of CO2 etc produced in the mining, transportation etc of the chemicals used in batteries, plus the actual manufacture and transportation of the batteries themselves? These chemicals and batteries are travelling thousands of miles around the world, and they're not going by electric means.

Isn't it all a lot of guesswork and, let's be honest, configured to make the purchaser of an EV feel better about their purchase when compared to an ICE?

Don't get me wrong, I can see a lot of positives with EVs, but I just don't think we should be kidding ourselves that they are some fantastic 'green' alternative.

Hi. Looking at each point:

1. Loads of studies comparing the CO2 breakeven point for EV's. Yes, I'm sure it's hard and complicated, like many studies.

2. Actually, only about 36% of UK leccy was from FF's last year. It's been dropping by about 3.5%pa for a decade or so. Hopefully by 2030, it'll be down to about 10%.

3. Correct, transporting materials is energy intensive. Luckily, BEV's consume about 1/400th of the raw materials of an ICEV over their lifetime. FF's actually make up about 40% (by mass) of all international shipping freight. So we really should consider this matter seriously, thanks for raising it.

4. I suspect calling all of the studies 'guesswork' is made to make the purchaser of an ICEV fell better about their purchase.

5. Correct, BEV's aren't perfect, nor 100% green, but nobody says they are. However, compared to ICEV's, they are better, and that's the context in which a fair and reasonable comparison should be made.

MEM62

watson0056 said:

Guys, I am planning to purchase one EV car but unable to come to any conclusion. Is there anyone who is using EVS and are staisfied with its performance? 

My wife has an ID3 and its a great car.  

SallyDucati

I bought a used Peugeot e-208 last Friday so early days so far!   But it is very nippy, particularly compared to the Mini Clubman I traded in.  And loving the relative quietness on the commute.

ididgetwhereiamtoday

boxosox said:

watson0056 said:

Guys,

I would offer some advice, but as I'm a woman, it appears you don't want it.

Good luck.

You probably have some ironing to do anyway…

I think the term Guys is none gender specific nowadays. 

Herzlos

Vectis said:

Petriix said:

The CO2 savings have already offset the manufacture of the battery and most of the rest of the vehicle;

But, how do you even try to calculate that?

Around half of all the electricity put into an EV comes from fossil fuel sources.

Plus, how does anyone really calculate the amount of CO2 etc produced in the mining, transportation etc of the chemicals used in batteries, plus the actual manufacture and transportation of the batteries themselves? These chemicals and batteries are travelling thousands of miles around the world, and they're not going by electric means.

Isn't it all a lot of guesswork and, let's be honest, configured to make the purchaser of an EV feel better about their purchase when compared to an ICE?

Don't get me wrong, I can see a lot of positives with EVs, but I just don't think we should be kidding ourselves that they are some fantastic 'green' alternative.

Even if EV's somehow work out carbon neutral to ICE (which they don't), you're still missing the point of where the emissions are. With an EV, the emissions are at power stations, which have pretty decent systems for carbon capture and tend to be away from people. With ICE, it spews out the back of the car.

So take an underground car park for example, would you rather all the cars in there were emitting fumes or emitting no fumes? If they don't emit fumes they don't need as much ventilation so won't be as cold and miserable.

Or noise. A neighbour coming home at 3am is going to be less annoying in an EV than an ICE.