Getting stung for someone's gas usage thanks to estimated bills

The_Hampshire_Blob

I own a rental flat (it's my defacto pension), which I had intended to sell, but which couldn’t because of the new fire risk legislation. So after leaving it standing empty for five months, I recently relet it.

The electricity and gas are both supplied by OVO Energy. The electricity is a smart meter and I though the gas meter was too, but I was wrong. There is a meter, which is outside the flat and in a locked external cupboard. No reading has been taken during the four years that I have owned the property. Once I found this out, I sent them a reading.

OVO is now demanding £1500 from me, despite me being able to demonstrate no electricity usage during the period when I have been responsible for the bill and the property being empty. I have sent them all the information that they have asked for, such as the lease. It’s been Groundhog Day on the phone: I explain everything, the person on the phone says the bill will be recalculated, then the following day OVO send text me demanding the same amount as before.

I don’t know what else I can do. I am thinking of getting a solicitor involved or perhaps contacting the ombudsman. Any advice? Is the law even on my side?

[Deleted User]

Hi,

sounds like you didn't get a reading when the previous tenant moved out.

QrizB

The_Hampshire_Blob said:

I don’t know what else I can do. I am thinking of getting a solicitor involved or perhaps contacting the ombudsman. Any advice? Is the law even on my side?

You're the landlord.

You should be agreeing meter readings with your tenants. Start-of-tenancy readings when they move in, end-of-tenancy readings when they move out.

If you haven't been doing this, and you now find yourself owing £1500 for gas, it's really your own fault. As the property owner, you are liable. If you had start and end readings for your tenants, you could have pursued them for the difference but, as you don't, you're really going to struggle to prove that they're liable.

ArbitraryRandom

I'd also suggest that - even if it was a smart meter - you or the tenants should be taking a reading at least once a year as they can stop sending readings (either due to a fault or the battery running low).

One thing to check (if you can) is if all the readings were estimates or if your tenants gave some 'readings' when asked that might not have been accurate (if you know they can't access the meter then any readings they submitted will have been false which could impact their liability in terms of back billing). 

Assuming they didn't, you can't really blame your tenants if they couldn't access the meter to take readings and you can't really blame the supplier if they weren't being given readings.  

Best you can do is wait for them to recalculate, then if you disagree with the calculation you can take your complaint to the ombudsman (which takes 8 weeks). The ideal outcome for you would be a low bill based on average summer use for properties of the same type and they chase your former tenants for their share (going back a max of 12 months). 

In the future, you really need to take opening and closing readings (plus maybe ask your plumber to take an annual reading when they're doing the gas safe check at the property anyway). 

Brie

There would have been electricity being used even if no one is there.  Gas too possibly if that's what's used for heating.  And for both there would be standing charges so there's always going to be something to pay.  £1500 I agree is a bit much if use has been at least minimal. 

As I understand it you will need to log an official complaint with the supplier if they are not doing what they have promised (recalculation) and then once they've had a chance to deal with it you can go to the ombudsperson if the complaint isn't resolved to your satisfaction. 

Ayr_Rage

Sounds like a catalogue of errors on your part as landlord.

Not knowing where the meter was located for the last four years.

Has it been accessed by your appointed engineer for gas safety checks ?

Not taking a final reading when the last tenants left and using that as your opening reading when you transferred the account to your name. 

On what basis were the tenants paying for gas ?

If I was renting I certainly wouldn't want to be paying on estimates for years.

ArbitraryRandom

Brie said:

As I understand it you will need to log an official complaint with the supplier if they are not doing what they have promised (recalculation) and then once they've had a chance to deal with it you can go to the ombudsperson if the complaint isn't resolved to your satisfaction. 

Re reading the first post, we also don't know the recent timescale... 

I have sent them all the information that they have asked for, such as the lease. It’s been Groundhog Day on the phone: I explain everything, the person on the phone says the bill will be recalculated, then the following day OVO send text me demanding the same amount as before.

OP - how long has it been since you provided the requested information and they said they would recalculate? As the text messages won't actually be being sent by a person, so is no indication that they are no in the process of recalculating. If you are calling after every message then could you actually be delaying the process by causing a new recalculation request to be generated on the system? 

Robin9

@The_Hampshire_Blob

When did your last tenant move in ?  Did you read the meter then ?

cannugec5

Did you buy the flat with a sitting tenant? If not how did you arrange the energy bills when you first purchased it? What were the readings on purchase compared to now? 

Is the current bill - according to the readings at purchase and today- commensurate with the total gas bill for the 4 years of ownership? 

Unless there was a sitting tenant at purchase I would think the onus to pay passed to you. If you didn’t pass this responsibility( via contract and readings) on to your recent tenant I cannot see how you are not responsible for this bill for your flat. 

ArbitraryRandom

cannugec5 said:

Is the current bill - according to the readings at purchase and today- commensurate with the total gas bill for the 4 years of ownership? 

£1500 would be amazingly low for 4 years (or even 3 and a half if it's been vacant for 5 months)... so I'd assume the previous tenant paid estimated bills (or gave fabricated readings due to lack of access to the meter)? 

Scot_39

Assumptions (you "thought" gas meter was smart - why - you should know - it's your flat ) are never a good idea in any business transaction.

Perhaps you or on your instruction the letting agents also told the last tennants the gas meter was smart - so they too simply "assumed" bills were accurate.

 

PS FYI Any remote meter cabinets - or even internally where a gas meter more than 5-10m away from the electric (which is normally the master to communicate with suppliers) and/or with repeated solid walls in the way - is seldom smart in practice - the default old standard local HAN signal simply too weak)

Would you have taken such a lax view of the metering arrangement for a flat you planned on living in or were living in ?

If your's was a tennancy with tennants responsible for bills direct with potentially their chosen suppliers - you should have had readings taken 5 months ago - when they vacated - and taken bills back in your name - especially as planned to leave vacant to sell. Tennants and as owners landlords have a legal right to access to any locked meter cabinets to chck metering for bills they are liable for.

I am assuming tennants were liable for direct contracts in their name - but their are other ways of renting - utilities included - or landlord rebilling.  But in either of those cases - you should have also been on top of billings and reading as well.  In rebilling case - legally obligated to be - as can only rebill based on those readings and actual costs.

Ovo have asked for a copy of tennancy agreement. That's in some ways maybe a good sign - as some energy companies will actually take the rental agreement terms into account - to establish debt liability.

Their speedy repeat of a demand - for money owed - in such a short period - isn't necessarily a sign they have adequately reviewed and rejected the supplied documents. 

But you might want to try and get them to put a hold on progressing any debt recovery actions - until have done so.

But I would suspect normal situation is based on an accurate reading produced at the end of the tennancy - unless the tennant defaulted on their final bill too.  Empty for 5 months - heating off no gas used etc - they only have your word for that - may not therefore in itself carry any or much leaway - as you cannot prove zero use over that period.

Other UK suppliers from posts elsewhere - do not - so not 100% convinced of the legal position.

But as it appears you have no such measurements - neither you - nor they will have anyway to accurately split that liability.  Other than any unpaid standing charges the tennant might have been liable for.

But that split liability also depends on the tennancy agreement making that liability - that responsibility to organise with suppliers and actually pay - for utilities and services (gas, phone, council tax etc) explicitly clear.

Sadly I have seen ones in the past that did not - when younger family members renting / student lets etc. And in the cases of young renters - or those not used to renting - that's not always as obvious a responsibility as you might think.

Being a landlord is not simple, you cannot just sit back and expect to print money - as many in the "alternative pension" brigade naively appear to think. It requires real time - real effort and knowledge - and when things go wrong - the need to either persue expensive legal action, or right off unrecoverable costs.

And whilst most tennants are good - some are not.

But on this occassion - you could have been easily protected - if did your "job" properly.

But seriously after 5 months or so - suspect you may well have to chalk this one up to experience.

And aim to get it right next time.

And on that basis I hope that meter readings were taken and agreed as and when the new tennants moved in - or will be.