Chargeback success but merchant not happy

Rav68

DullGreyGuy said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_ghead said:

Rav68 said:

Thank you for your reply, we have haven’t had an independent builder go in to do an estimate yet to verify the amount. Should we get this done now before it gets to the next stage? The builder has sent a text today saying he will refer it to a debt collector

20k is a lot of money OP. 

It is also above the Small Track limit and so likely to end in Fast Track which makes court more of a gamble as legal fees start being admissible 

Don’t understand Small Track/ fast track does this mean it’s riskier for me if the builder does try to go to court? 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Rav68 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Rav68 said:

Thank you for your reply, we have haven’t had an independent builder go in to do an estimate yet to verify the amount. Should we get this done now before it gets to the next stage? The builder has sent a text today saying he will refer it to a debt collector

20k is a lot of money OP. 

Getting everything you need in place in case the builder takes you to court would be prudent, if the builder does go to court it would be necessary to defend your position. 

What was the builder doing for £32k?

They were doing a full refurb including a full damp course downstairs 

If you have an itemised quote or estimate and can easily show things weren't done that bit should be straightforward. 

For the quality of work aspect that's more subjective, all services should be carried out with due care and skill so having a "report" that shows the work done isn't to an acceptable industry standard would be sensible. 

Not to add to your woes but damp course treatment is rarely necessary and typically hides the damp in the walls. 

This website:

https://www.heritage-house.org/

has a lot of information about damp which you might find useful. I doubt it will help with your case as this industry seems to be accepted despite the many questions raised but it might help you care for home over the years  

Hopefully the damp proof work is one of the things the builder didn't do at all. 

DullGreyGuy

Rav68 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_ghead said:

Rav68 said:

Thank you for your reply, we have haven’t had an independent builder go in to do an estimate yet to verify the amount. Should we get this done now before it gets to the next stage? The builder has sent a text today saying he will refer it to a debt collector

20k is a lot of money OP. 

It is also above the Small Track limit and so likely to end in Fast Track which makes court more of a gamble as legal fees start being admissible 

Don’t understand Small Track/ fast track does this mean it’s riskier for me if the builder does try to go to court? 

Its riskier for both... in Small Track (aka small claims court) the winner gets no help towards their legal costs or personal expenses and as such to issue proceedings is of little risk as all you are really chancing is the issuing fee which is typically very small.

The next step up is Fast Track, at this stage the issuing fee is 5% of the claim (so £1k in a £20k claim) but as well as that a fixed fee award is also given for legal costs which again is based on the claim. As such it becomes much riskier to issue or defend a claim because the costs covered by the loser are much higher.

It may be worth seeing if you have Legal Expenses cover on your home insurance or via a union (if you are in one) etc as its potentially a substantial claim with not insubstantial fees... the builder will have to fund these up front though which will be another barrier to them and another reason why it may be all hot air 

For completeness of education, after Fast Track you then go to Multi-Track which has no limits and legal costs are full reasonable costs not a fixed fee. 

jlfrs01

Can we back up a little please? Did the Builder provide a statement of works to cover what was being carried out? £32k is a lot of money so I can't imagine anyone would sign up to spend that amount of money without having had a detailed breakdown. Secondly, if the works are incomplete and those done poorly completed, have you shown the builder proof against the statement of works? That would be pretty hard to dispute. What's their defence/justification for demanding payment in full? 

eskbanker

jlfrs01 said:

What's their defence/justification for demanding payment in full? 

OP hasn't actually said that the builder is demanding payment in full, but is obviously unwilling to have the £32K job repriced to £12K - it seems plausible that there's some middle ground that may work, depending on the justification for valuing it at £12K or whatever the builder would consider fair....

Rav68

jlfrs01 said:

Can we back up a little please? Did the Builder provide a statement of works to cover what was being carried out? £32k is a lot of money so I can't imagine anyone would sign up to spend that amount of money without having had a detailed breakdown. Secondly, if the works are incomplete and those done poorly completed, have you shown the builder proof against the statement of works? That would be pretty hard to dispute. What's their defence/justification for demanding payment in full? 

Thank you for your reply, yes we have a full detailed breakdown of the work that was supposed to be carried out. We held back money for snagging but were told snags would only be looked at after full payment was made, they literally had us over a barrel. Once we paid they didn’t come back to do any of the snags. We have photos of all the poor workmanship and photos of the work that wasn’t carried, this was all submitted as evidence to Amex who after investigation and back and forth with the builder decided to rule in our favour. We have since had to get the work finished by another builder but some still needs doing such as the damp proof and some plastering which wasn’t done properly. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Rav68 said:
 some still needs doing such as the damp proof

Please pop over to the DIY board

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=39

with details of the problems regarding damp, the advice there might not only save you thousands but may well preserve the fabric of your house.  

sheramber

If it is a chargeback why does the builder not dispute it with Amex and get the money returned?

I thought that was how chargeback worked.

DullGreyGuy

sheramber said:

If it is a chargeback why does the builder not dispute it with Amex and get the money returned?

I thought that was how chargeback worked.

Chargebacks are fairly crude and if you believe most small business owners, loaded against the merchant. Used to be on a small business forum and the almost universal advise was to save your time trying to defend chargebacks and just get the court claim form ready. 

eskbanker

sheramber said:

If it is a chargeback why does the builder not dispute it with Amex and get the money returned?

I thought that was how chargeback worked.

The builder did dispute the chargeback but Amex sided with OP:

Rav68 said:
this was all submitted as evidence to Amex who after investigation and back and forth with the builder decided to rule in our favour