Amazon Returns issue

mutley74

I recently returned a few items backs to Amazon out of a order of around 15 items in the month. Some of these were not even opened (still original seal intact) as the box description did not match the details on the site. 2 others were opened (cctv cameras) but the wiring was not installation friendly - so boxed up and returned (description did not highlight the issue). 

Then I receive this email:
"We have noticed that you have requested refunds for several items that you have returned but which have not arrived in their original condition. The items have either been damaged, obviously used, or have missing parts. We know that occasional problems with orders are expected in the normal course of business. However, the number of issues with your orders exceed that expectation and are in violation of our conditions of use policy."

I cannot find anything specific in Amazon T&Cs which point to what is fair usage. 
Has anyone else experienced this email? 
I emailed and phoned them asking what products do they find not in original condition but they wont tell me.  I am still waiting for refund on 3 items over a week now. 

Has anyone else found a successful way to contact Amazon over refund or customer service dispute? They dont respond to emails and the CS agents are overseas and just follow a script and cant offer any specific information. 

If anyone know what is Amazon fair use policy please let me know.  thanks

diinozzo

mutley74 said:

I recently returned a few items backs to Amazon out of a order of around 15 items in the month. Some of these were not even opened (still original seal intact) as the box description did not match the details on the site. 2 others were opened (cctv cameras) but the wiring was not installation friendly - so boxed up and returned (description did not highlight the issue). 

Then I receive this email:
"We have noticed that you have requested refunds for several items that you have returned but which have not arrived in their original condition. The items have either been damaged, obviously used, or have missing parts. We know that occasional problems with orders are expected in the normal course of business. However, the number of issues with your orders exceed that expectation and are in violation of our conditions of use policy."

I cannot find anything specific in Amazon T&Cs which point to what is fair usage. 
Has anyone else experienced this email? 
I emailed and phoned them asking what products do they find not in original condition but they wont tell me.  I am still waiting for refund on 3 items over a week now. 

Has anyone else found a successful way to contact Amazon over refund or customer service dispute? They dont respond to emails and the CS agents are overseas and just follow a script and cant offer any specific information. 

If anyone know what is Amazon fair use policy please let me know.  thanks

What's your general return rate? Amazon don't like people taking the proverbial.

Bradden

mutley74 said:

If anyone know what is Amazon fair use policy please let me know.  thanks

I doubt they post that informaiton publicly.. people would just use it to their advantage.

mutley74

Just return 1 item end of Sept. Then about 5 items this month (out of 20) some were still sealed, as the box description did not match the website for user info. 

Grumpy_chap

mutley74 said:

I recently returned a few items backs to Amazon out of a order of around 15 items in the month. Some of these were not even opened (still original seal intact) as the box description did not match the details on the site. 2 others were opened (cctv cameras) but the wiring was not installation friendly - so boxed up and returned (description did not highlight the issue). 

mutley74 said:

Just return 1 item end of Sept. Then about 5 items this month (out of 20) some were still sealed, as the box description did not match the website for user info. 

"A few" items out of 15.  "some" were not opened and "2 others" = a minimum of 4 items out of 15 = 25%
5 out of 20 = 25%

It may not be surprising that Amazon (or any retailer) would have an algorithm that looks at returns rate and challenges or even blocks customers where the returns rate is "high".  No retailer will share what their definition is for "high".

A pattern of 25% return rate seems high to me.
I have ordered 9 items from Amazon this month.  I have returned one.  I cannot remember the last time I returned an item to Amazon - I think it was 2017 (determined because I know where I was working at the time).  That's it - only two returns ever.  I really cannot recall any other time when I have returned an item to Amazon.

I think it is important to carefully read all the details of the description for online purchases. 
Sometimes that is not as easy as it may be, but the effort is in the reduced price.  As an example, I wanted a replacement for an item purchased from Argos.  The Argos price for the same again was £55.  I found an equivalent on Amazon at £22 - it took some effort to check that the critical dimension would be compatible, but for the saving of 50% I felt it was worth the time.  Plus, I simply would not really want the hassle of needing to return.

It is odd that the same thing (high returns rates) has come up twice in quick succession:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6480724/returned-goods-too-many-times/p1

powdies

In my view this is the big problem with the new online shopping culture. In shops we browse, we look, we pick up and put down and try on to narrow the field and reach a choice. If you translate that to online shopping it turns into a churn of buy and return. It's exhausting in itself and nobody really wants that.

But some online sellers somehow expect us to buy clothing or other very subjective items without a proper opportunity to evaluate and rule out. My partner just received that Amazon email. True, we have returned a number of (very different) items recently (Xmas!) but all of them in pristine condition (though box maybe opened as is our right under consumer law). Some not even opened. One was clearly previously returned when we received it and I wonder if that is what sparked the email. But overall I think it's because we triggered an algorithm by making several returns.

How exactly can that model work as physical shops disappear? In a recent (extreme) example I had to try 25 different versions of a costly specialised sports jacket before I could find one to fit my unusual frame. Thankfully this was only minimally through online buy and return. We travelled to get to places we could find them on the ground. But it took 2 years as physical stores are now few and far between.

As shopping moves increasingly online are we just expected to "settle for second best" because stores like Amazon kick off if you return a few items?  It's not a good prospect. I understand of course that returns cost them money but surely it's the price they pay for the huge savings they make through having no physical premises nor providing us with the "luxury" of proper evaluation before a purchase? 

Amazon is not necessarily even cheaper than other options in my experience. My partner uses them for speed of delivery. Pays a Prime subscription as he buys frequently and yet gets squealing if he returns .

sheramber

One was clearly previously returned when we received it 

What do you expect hem to do with itrems returned by someone  who took advantage of  returning  items , as you did?

Undervalued

mutley74 said:

I recently returned a few items backs to Amazon out of a order of around 15 items in the month. Some of these were not even opened (still original seal intact) as the box description did not match the details on the site. 2 others were opened (cctv cameras) but the wiring was not installation friendly - so boxed up and returned (description did not highlight the issue). 

Then I receive this email:
"We have noticed that you have requested refunds for several items that you have returned but which have not arrived in their original condition. The items have either been damaged, obviously used, or have missing parts. We know that occasional problems with orders are expected in the normal course of business. However, the number of issues with your orders exceed that expectation and are in violation of our conditions of use policy."

I cannot find anything specific in Amazon T&Cs which point to what is fair usage. 
Has anyone else experienced this email? 
I emailed and phoned them asking what products do they find not in original condition but they wont tell me.  I am still waiting for refund on 3 items over a week now. 

Has anyone else found a successful way to contact Amazon over refund or customer service dispute? They dont respond to emails and the CS agents are overseas and just follow a script and cant offer any specific information. 

If anyone know what is Amazon fair use policy please let me know.  thanks

Given the vast array of products they sell there is never going to be a "one size fits all" definition of that.

Amazon are one of the biggest "data crunchers" on the planet so there will be all kinds of complex algorithms behind profiling what they find unacceptable (i.e. uneconomic) behaviour. Not that it helps, it is not personal but simply part of their overall business model.

You only have to look at many of the questions on this forum to understand that if all customers behaved in the way that a few expect to, no business could survive selling online!

Legally, your right with distance shopping is to be able to reasonably inspect the goods much as you would in a physical shop. However what that doesn't take into account is that a physical shop may well have a "display model" which is handled by many customers over a period of months then either written off, sold at a discount or sold on to a clearance type operation to recoup some of the cost.

You may well be able to stand on your rights and get a refund for these items but that may well come at the cost of having your account closed. That, any retailer has the right to do.