Help! Been paying neighbours electric bill for 14 years!

TheElectricCow

Was mentioned by someone else, but do you think it’d be more practical to run a supply from the house to Garage 1 and disconnect this garage from the meter in Garage 2 entirely? 

That would remove the issue of trying to divide up the billing between the two and get rid of the two sets of standing charges. Then if Garage 2 wants to keep the supply they can become responsible for it otherwise there’d be no issue with your supply in them getting the meter removed. I imagine that should be substantially cheaper than adding a brand new supply to to the mix.

sonypc100

born_again said:

sonypc100 said:

born_again said:

sonypc100 said:

Petriix said:

This all seems ludicrously expensive. Running a second meter and paying two sets of standing charges doesn't make much sense in the current market where you're effectively paying a double contribution to the collective fund that pays for things like the smart meter rollout, all the failed suppliers and various network costs etc. On the other hand you presumably got a second bite at the £400 grant last year...

So the question is what's the best option for now and the future?
You need a smart meter for Octopus Go so the meter will need replacing anyway. My radical suggestion is to have the garage meter removed (or transferred to the other property if they want to keep it) and run some SWA from your main meter out to the garage. That way you're only paying one standing charge and you get the benefits of the cheap overnight charging window for your domestic usage as well. 

A few months ago I had a smart meter fitted so that is in place.

Yes I agree why pay twice if we can work out a way to pay for the use, my only caveat is that I will be on Octopus Go for cheap overnight EV charging so not sure how we manage that?

So is this you house meter or the meter in the garage that is now on GO?

This is a separate meter in the garage just for the garage electricity, so we are billed twice a month, once for the meter in the house and once for the meter in the garage

So is car going to be charged via house or garage supply?

Via the garage supply

Reed_Richards

sonypc100 said:

Deeds have just now been looked at and as expected there is nothing about the garage electrics - I'm not surprised, weve had to look at them before and they are not really fit for purpose.

But they make it clear that you only own the one garage and not both of them?  Because if they were both yours (or both not yours) that would explain why they are only served by a single meter.

Scot_39

There is - or rather was - it seems - no dispute over the current arrangement.

One that has seemingly spanned at least 34 years and 2 leaseholders - not necessarily owners of anything - let alone the meters - of the OPs flat.

Just as they might be protected from garage 2 "owner" unilaterally changing the supply and disconnecting them - garage 2 "owner" is equally likely to be protected from having it done to them.

And the OP has already potentially broken that by unilaterally changing tariffs - unlikely to have  been an issue - but now seems to want to charge - so now could be.

Now if garage 2 "owner" was fitting an EV charger - and so potentially then using 100s kWh monthly - I could understand the OPs frustration - but as it is....

Edit : There might even say be restrictions saying cannot use garage as workshop to prevent excessive bills being accumulated - but unlikely to be an explicit EV clause.

If they and only they want the supply split - to break that long standing arrangement - then it seems arguably fair it is entirely at their cost.

Why after all - if protected by a long standing - and as yet the OP has produced no info to say if it is or not a legally binding one -  arrangement - should the "owner" of property 2 garage accept any new charges at all - even if only just 50% of the standing charge ?

Fitting EV chargers is not a right - I know one flat dweller who was initially refused permission for a wall mounted one and he as a suitable location - ground floor flat and dedicated adjacent parking - unlike many others in blocks.
Freeholder weighing up options and costs for a communal approach to suit all was the response to 1st solicitors letter.  

BeerSavesMoney

sonypc100 said:

frugalmacdugal said:

Hi,

sonypc100 said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

sonypc100 said:

Just spoken to the power grid they have said all Garage 2’s feeds need removing from my meter they then need setting up on their own meter and then an MPAN will be created to then go to suppliers to provide electric and billing 

Cost £3200 + VAT approx 

I think the issue would be that the landlady/owner of the other property would argue it's not your meter and your feeds need removing from her property's meter  

Surely as she's never paid for any electric and the meter and bill are addresses to me at my property then she would have no claim that it is her meter?

There's only me who has paid for it and dealt with it including changing to a smart meter

can't see neighbour agreeing to pay £3200 + vat, or even half of that, for a  supply seldom used.

What if neighbour decides she doesn't want your meter and consumer unit in her garage?

You would then have the cost of getting it removed and a new supply for your garage.

=

After speaking to Northern powergrid yesterday the neighbour cannot just remove/revoke my electric supply and leave us without electricity.

Similarly her gas feed and meter for her house is in my other neighbour's cellar and that couldn't just be turned off/disconnected

I’m surprised this is allowed, what if there was a gas leak in your property and you needed to turn off the gas at the meter? What would happen if your neighbour isn’t in?

sonypc100

TheElectricCow said:

Was mentioned by someone else, but do you think it’d be more practical to run a supply from the house to Garage 1 and disconnect this garage from the meter in Garage 2 entirely? 

That would remove the issue of trying to divide up the billing between the two and get rid of the two sets of standing charges. Then if Garage 2 wants to keep the supply they can become responsible for it otherwise there’d be no issue with your supply in them getting the meter removed. I imagine that should be substantially cheaper than adding a brand new supply to to the mix.

Sadly the garage is across and down a lane from the house, there would be no way to run a supply from the house to the garage

sonypc100

Reed_Richards said:

sonypc100 said:

Deeds have just now been looked at and as expected there is nothing about the garage electrics - I'm not surprised, weve had to look at them before and they are not really fit for purpose.

But they make it clear that you only own the one garage and not both of them?  Because if they were both yours (or both not yours) that would explain why they are only served by a single meter.

Correct, yes, our 1 and only garage is marked on the deeds

sonypc100

BeerSavesMoney said:

sonypc100 said:

frugalmacdugal said:

Hi,

sonypc100 said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

sonypc100 said:

Just spoken to the power grid they have said all Garage 2’s feeds need removing from my meter they then need setting up on their own meter and then an MPAN will be created to then go to suppliers to provide electric and billing 

Cost £3200 + VAT approx 

I think the issue would be that the landlady/owner of the other property would argue it's not your meter and your feeds need removing from her property's meter  

Surely as she's never paid for any electric and the meter and bill are addresses to me at my property then she would have no claim that it is her meter?

There's only me who has paid for it and dealt with it including changing to a smart meter

can't see neighbour agreeing to pay £3200 + vat, or even half of that, for a  supply seldom used.

What if neighbour decides she doesn't want your meter and consumer unit in her garage?

You would then have the cost of getting it removed and a new supply for your garage.

=

After speaking to Northern powergrid yesterday the neighbour cannot just remove/revoke my electric supply and leave us without electricity.

Similarly her gas feed and meter for her house is in my other neighbour's cellar and that couldn't just be turned off/disconnected

I’m surprised this is allowed, what if there was a gas leak in your property and you needed to turn off the gas at the meter? What would happen if your neighbour isn’t in?

Luckily the door to the cellar isnt locked

Reed_Richards

Anything that is in "Garage 2" belongs to the owner of Garage 2, with the exception of the electricity meter which belongs to the DNO.  That means it's their fuse box, even though some of the fuses are for your supply, and you could not unilaterally replace it with something more modern, even if you wanted to and even if that was a precondition of getting an EV charger installed.  It also means that you cannot install a submeter inside their garage without the explicit permission of the owner.  And any change to the status quo will be to the disadvantage of the owner.

You are fortunate that the property is rented out and between renters at present.  So now is the time to negotiate the installation of a submeter at your expense so you can recoup the cost of any electricity used and get a share of the standing charge.  Make sure provisions for this are written into the new rental agreement.  You might eventually recoup the cost, quite possibly more from the standing charge payments than from electricity used.  Forget about those bottles of wine, that was a pipe dream.    

poppellerant

I don't know how far away the garage is from your property, but have you considered cutting off the electric coming from garage 2 to garage 1 (yours) completely, then running a ring from the house to the garage? Otherwise it sounds like you're paying standing charges for two electric meters, just for the sake of turning a light on and providing your neighbour with some free electric.

That would be my way forward.  Disassociate you and your property from garage 2, then establish a connection from the house supply to the garage.