Help! Been paying neighbours electric bill for 14 years!

Reed_Richards

sonypc100 said:

Just spoken to the power grid they have said all Garage 2’s feeds need removing from my meter they then need setting up on their own meter and then an MPAN will be created to then go to suppliers to provide electric and billing 

Cost £3200 + VAT approx 

Plus an extra meter with its own MPAN will incur an extra standing charge.  And unless there is anything in the garage other than lights and sockets for occasional use then the cost of the standing charge will most likely vastly exceed the cost of the actual electricity used.

The only problem with having the neighbour pay the cost of the units on a submeter is that that cost may vary according to time of use, almost certainly will if the OP gets that electric car.

Is this really worth worrying about until such time as the neighbour starts using anything more than lighting and an occasional power tool in their garage?  Just ask them to make sure all filament bulbs and fluorescents are replaced with LED lights.  

sonypc100

QrizB said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

sonypc100 said:

Aside of usage and I’ve no idea how much the standing charge has increased over the years but in today’s money at 0.52 a day over 14 years we are around £2.5k 

It's already been pointed out you can't legally pursue a debt from longer than 6 years ago - trying would probably just alienate your neighbour and result in a dispute that you would have to declare if/when you want to sell.

As for the amount - It depends on the fix you were on, but back in 2021 I was paying 14.42p per day (which would be £52.63 per year) and in 2022 it was 23.74p (£86.65).

So I'd think the highest you could 'reasonably' estimate would be £600 for the standing charges - and you should have paid half, meaning the neighbour probably owes you around £300ish... hence saying the cost of installing sub meters probably balances it out if there's no reason to think more than very minimal use for lighting. 

I have a spreadsheet with the Ofgem caps since tey were introduced in early 2019 (yes I know, I'm sad like that). The national average annual standing charge for electricity is roughly:

• 2019: 28p/day
• 2020: 24p/day
• 2021: 25p/day
• 2022: 46p/day
• 2023: 53p/day

So, over the past five years, the average standing charge will total approx. £650.

I don't have a figure for 2018 but you might exepct it to be another £100 or so.

Of course, if OP has six years of garage electricity bills they can work it out for themselves.

thank you, very helpful

[Deleted User]

Hi,

sonypc100 said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

sonypc100 said:

Just spoken to the power grid they have said all Garage 2’s feeds need removing from my meter they then need setting up on their own meter and then an MPAN will be created to then go to suppliers to provide electric and billing 

Cost £3200 + VAT approx 

I think the issue would be that the landlady/owner of the other property would argue it's not your meter and your feeds need removing from her property's meter  

Surely as she's never paid for any electric and the meter and bill are addresses to me at my property then she would have no claim that it is her meter?

There's only me who has paid for it and dealt with it including changing to a smart meter

can't see neighbour agreeing to pay £3200 + vat, or even half of that, for a  supply seldom used.

What if neighbour decides she doesn't want your meter and consumer unit in her garage?

You would then have the cost of getting it removed and a new supply for your garage.

=

Petriix

This all seems ludicrously expensive. Running a second meter and paying two sets of standing charges doesn't make much sense in the current market where you're effectively paying a double contribution to the collective fund that pays for things like the smart meter rollout, all the failed suppliers and various network costs etc. On the other hand you presumably got a second bite at the £400 grant last year...

So the question is what's the best option for now and the future?
You need a smart meter for Octopus Go so the meter will need replacing anyway. My radical suggestion is to have the garage meter removed (or transferred to the other property if they want to keep it) and run some SWA from your main meter out to the garage. That way you're only paying one standing charge and you get the benefits of the cheap overnight charging window for your domestic usage as well. 

MultiFuelBurner

I think I asked this before but how much does this garage meter covering the two garages cost you per year? 

Moneysavingchap

sonypc100 said:

Moneysavingchap said:

Where is the consumer unit? Is it right next to the meter in the neighbours garage?

Yes that’s correct 

Is there a written agreement for this setup, that you "own" the supply and it is shared between garages? As if not, I am not sure how this is really your meter.

What's to stop the neighbour disconnecting the supply to your garage, given the consumer unit is presumably his as it is within his property? Also if there's not an agreement, the neighbour is under no obligation to let you read this meter. 

If I was the neighbour, and you came to me asking for £3200 (or £1600) plus vat to run another supply I'd tell you to !!!!!! off. If there is no agreement for this setup, then why can't he disconnect you, then the best case for either of you would either be a legal action (not sure on the likelihood you'd succeed) or you'd need to run a new supply in yourself, either from DNO or you could run another supply from your own house consumer unit. 

Not sure any of those situations are desirable. Maybe speak to your neighbour and see if they are amenable to some sort of cost sharing going forward, otherwise the current status quo might actually be the best situation you can get without spending thousands of pounds? Not sure sub meters are actually the answer here either, as how would that even be billed? I think you're relying on the good will of your neighbour regardless. 

ArbitraryRandom

sonypc100 said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

sonypc100 said:

Just spoken to the power grid they have said all Garage 2’s feeds need removing from my meter they then need setting up on their own meter and then an MPAN will be created to then go to suppliers to provide electric and billing 

Cost £3200 + VAT approx 

I think the issue would be that the landlady/owner of the other property would argue it's not your meter and your feeds need removing from her property's meter  

Surely as she's never paid for any electric and the meter and bill are addresses to me at my property then she would have no claim that it is her meter?

There's only me who has paid for it and dealt with it including changing to a smart meter

The meter belongs to the DNO - and it's on her property/supplying her garage... from what's she's said, it's also been there for much longer than you have been paying the bills. 

It's entirely possible there was an agreement when the properties were originally converted that your property pay the (at the time probably quite minimal) charges in return for using her meter/having access to her property. 

Like I said, look at your deeds - they cost £4. Or if you're a tidy sort, have a look at what you got from your solicitor way back when to see if they noticed/mentioned anything about the arrangement. 

Either way, asking for £3/400 to split the meters is much more reasonable than expecting them to pay thousands to change something they have no problem with - and you would have no 'rights' to force them to pay (or to remove their connection) unless there's something in the deeds about ownership. Whatever the deeds say, you would of course have every right to install your own dedicated connection to your own property at your own cost if you no longer wished to share. 

Jonboy_1984

frugalmacdugal said:

Hi,

can't see neighbour agreeing to pay £3200 + vat, or even half of that, for a  supply seldom used.

What if neighbour decides she doesn't want your meter and consumer unit in her garage?

You would then have the cost of getting it removed and a new supply for your garage.

=

Depends on the deeds as there may be a legally binding right to the arrangement.

sonypc100

Just to say a big thanks to everyone who has responded, it's certainly given us food for thought and the start of a pathway to move forward.

I'm going to catch up now with this morning's posts and quote/comment as needed

sonypc100

frugalmacdugal said:

Hi,

sonypc100 said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

sonypc100 said:

Just spoken to the power grid they have said all Garage 2’s feeds need removing from my meter they then need setting up on their own meter and then an MPAN will be created to then go to suppliers to provide electric and billing 

Cost £3200 + VAT approx 

I think the issue would be that the landlady/owner of the other property would argue it's not your meter and your feeds need removing from her property's meter  

Surely as she's never paid for any electric and the meter and bill are addresses to me at my property then she would have no claim that it is her meter?

There's only me who has paid for it and dealt with it including changing to a smart meter

can't see neighbour agreeing to pay £3200 + vat, or even half of that, for a  supply seldom used.

What if neighbour decides she doesn't want your meter and consumer unit in her garage?

You would then have the cost of getting it removed and a new supply for your garage.

=

After speaking to Northern powergrid yesterday the neighbour cannot just remove/revoke my electric supply and leave us without electricity.

Similarly her gas feed and meter for her house is in my other neighbour's cellar and that couldn't just be turned off/disconnected