Help! Been paying neighbours electric bill for 14 years!

MultiFuelBurner

Garage electrics, unless they are running chest freezers(s) etc is likely to be light and a couple of sockets? As long as they don't charge an EV via socket it won't have cost a lot.

sonypc100

QrizB said:

sonypc100 said:

So, a few questions…

1, how can we find out why 2 meters were never installed?
2, if we now want to split the supplies for Garage 1 and 2 and have them on their own meters who would pay for this?
3. How do we go about deciding how much Garage 2 owes us, we can’t just guesstimate usage for 14 years. 
4. What if garage 2 decides they don’t want our meter and supply in their garage anymore?

1. Unless there's something in your deeds / lease, you can't.

2. There's two ways of doing this. You could add a pair of sub-meters to the current supply (and then split the bill with the owner of Garage 2 based on metered consumption), or you could get a separate supply installed to serve your garage. Adding a pair of sub-meters shouldn't cost more than £300-£500, but you'll also need to make an agreement (formally, in writing) with the owner of Garage 2 regarding how the bill is split etc.  Getting a new supply installed to your garage will cost whatever your DNO charges (there's a guide for SSEN here). A separate supply will mean playing the whole standing charge, not splitting it with Garage 2.

3. You can only guesstimate, and (at least in law) you can only go back 6 years (5 in Scotland). You might like to write it off, unless your on generally good terms with the owners of Garage 2.

4. That will be covered by the written agreement, if you stick with a shared supply. If you get your own, separate, supply then it won't matter what Garage 2 thinks.

Thanks very helpful - appreciate your reply

sonypc100

Netexporter said:

What electrical equipment is in the tenant's garage?

Nothing major up to now, the garage door is electric and few sockets for the odd drill etc and lighting

sonypc100

ArbitraryRandom said:

One point I need to check - is the meter measuring the properties AND the garages... or just the garages? At first I thought you meant the whole house, but your more recent post makes me think we're talking significantly lower amounts of money. 

If it is just the garages/hundreds rather than thousands a year, then I'd probably suggest your neighbour pays the cost of having sub meters installed and you call it even. 

Yes it’s just the garages, the supply for the flats is correct 

sonypc100

Reed_Richards said:

Let me get this straight: you own garage 1.  You have been sneaking into garage 2 to read the only visible meter there and supplying those readings as if it was your own meter.  You assumed that garage 2 had some other meter in there, even though you could not see one.  And the meter that you have been reading only covers what must surely have been the minimal amount of energy that has been used in the garages? 

Someone woke up grumpy lol 

no sneaking involved, instead of knocking on his door, asking to borrow his garage door fob, the arrangement has always been that I just take a reading as and when, which is usually once or twice a year  

I know where my meter is, but no I haven’t gone rummaging around his garage looking for his (non existent) meter, as per my OP the properties are very quirky and things aren’t always in obvious places, my gas meter is in someone else’s cellar, down a long dark corridor

ArbitraryRandom

Alnat1 said:

Does the owner of the small garage actually use any power in there other than occasionally putting a light on? I'm thinking if I was that owner and someone suddenly asked me to start paying for a power supply I didn't really use, I wouldn't be happy, in fact I might ask for the supply to be removed as I didn't need it. I'm sure I could manage with a torch if I did need to go in there after dark. Would this be a problem for you or could you also use a torch?

If the owner does use the supply, maybe they have a freezer in there etc. then they should expect to pay towards the cost. If it's mostly you who needs and uses power in your garage then perhaps you should accept paying the charges and offer your neighbour a suitable LED bulb to keep your costs down.

The bigger issue I would think would be the standing charge - which could quite reasonably eclipse the actual use.

Having the meter removed would cost a few hundred pounds (and it might be the neighbour can't decide unilaterally to do so if it's a shared supply - depending what's in the deeds) so if the way forward is sub-meters then the few hundred pound installation would cost should reasonably (to my mind) balance 50% of the standing charge for the 6 years you could get back via the courts (and would save everyone the bother and acrimony of taking a neighbour to court). 

sonypc100

ArbitraryRandom said:

Alnat1 said:

Does the owner of the small garage actually use any power in there other than occasionally putting a light on? I'm thinking if I was that owner and someone suddenly asked me to start paying for a power supply I didn't really use, I wouldn't be happy, in fact I might ask for the supply to be removed as I didn't need it. I'm sure I could manage with a torch if I did need to go in there after dark. Would this be a problem for you or could you also use a torch?

If the owner does use the supply, maybe they have a freezer in there etc. then they should expect to pay towards the cost. If it's mostly you who needs and uses power in your garage then perhaps you should accept paying the charges and offer your neighbour a suitable LED bulb to keep your costs down.

The bigger issue I would think would be the standing charge - which could quite reasonably eclipse the actual use.

Having the meter removed would cost a few hundred pounds (and it might be the neighbour can't decide unilaterally to do so if it's a shared supply - depending what's in the deeds) so if the way forward is sub-meters then the few hundred pound installation would cost should reasonably (to my mind) balance 50% of the standing charge for the 6 years you could get back via the courts (and would save everyone the bother and acrimony of taking a neighbour to court). 

What if the landlords of Garage 2 don’t want my meter and feed in their garage? I presume I can’t just be cut off? 

For example my gas mains and my meter is in someone else’s cellar but they couldn’t just rip that out if they wanted I guess and leave me alone with no gas supply

ArbitraryRandom

sonypc100 said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Alnat1 said:

Does the owner of the small garage actually use any power in there other than occasionally putting a light on? I'm thinking if I was that owner and someone suddenly asked me to start paying for a power supply I didn't really use, I wouldn't be happy, in fact I might ask for the supply to be removed as I didn't need it. I'm sure I could manage with a torch if I did need to go in there after dark. Would this be a problem for you or could you also use a torch?

If the owner does use the supply, maybe they have a freezer in there etc. then they should expect to pay towards the cost. If it's mostly you who needs and uses power in your garage then perhaps you should accept paying the charges and offer your neighbour a suitable LED bulb to keep your costs down.

The bigger issue I would think would be the standing charge - which could quite reasonably eclipse the actual use.

Having the meter removed would cost a few hundred pounds (and it might be the neighbour can't decide unilaterally to do so if it's a shared supply - depending what's in the deeds) so if the way forward is sub-meters then the few hundred pound installation would cost should reasonably (to my mind) balance 50% of the standing charge for the 6 years you could get back via the courts (and would save everyone the bother and acrimony of taking a neighbour to court). 

What if the landlords of Garage 2 don’t want my meter and feed in their garage? I presume I can’t just be cut off? 

For example my gas mains and my meter is in someone else’s cellar but they couldn’t just rip that out if they wanted I guess and leave me alone with no gas supply

You would need to check your and their deeds for any covenants which were included when the properties were split - it's really something your solicitor should have flagged during your purchase of the property.

It's not an unusual arrangement when conversations are done on the cheap and normally there's provisions written in plus a right of access 

I wouldn't go begging problems though.

DullGreyGuy

ArbitraryRandom said:

Alnat1 said:

Does the owner of the small garage actually use any power in there other than occasionally putting a light on? I'm thinking if I was that owner and someone suddenly asked me to start paying for a power supply I didn't really use, I wouldn't be happy, in fact I might ask for the supply to be removed as I didn't need it. I'm sure I could manage with a torch if I did need to go in there after dark. Would this be a problem for you or could you also use a torch?

If the owner does use the supply, maybe they have a freezer in there etc. then they should expect to pay towards the cost. If it's mostly you who needs and uses power in your garage then perhaps you should accept paying the charges and offer your neighbour a suitable LED bulb to keep your costs down.

The bigger issue I would think would be the standing charge - which could quite reasonably eclipse the actual use.

Having the meter removed would cost a few hundred pounds (and it might be the neighbour can't decide unilaterally to do so if it's a shared supply - depending what's in the deeds) so if the way forward is sub-meters then the few hundred pound installation would cost should reasonably (to my mind) balance 50% of the standing charge for the 6 years you could get back via the courts (and would save everyone the bother and acrimony of taking a neighbour to court). 

I am assuming both OP and neighbour only have 1 meter each and so both are paying a full service charge already so nothing to be shared. What the OP has been unwittingly paying is the usage of the garage of the neighbour which doesn't sound as if it's too high anyway. 

Rented a house on a small development once made up of two short terraces. Noted that the 4 "end of terraces" each had a cable coming out the side towards the carparking area. A quick chat with the developer and turned out the four of us were paying for the 4 lights in the carpark. 1 low energy bulb going from sundown to midnight isn't going to cost the world but thought it was a bit of a cheek.

Depending on who owns what and what long term plans are for both owners will somewhat dictate how much its worth spending on getting things changed

ArbitraryRandom

DullGreyGuy said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Alnat1 said:

Does the owner of the small garage actually use any power in there other than occasionally putting a light on? I'm thinking if I was that owner and someone suddenly asked me to start paying for a power supply I didn't really use, I wouldn't be happy, in fact I might ask for the supply to be removed as I didn't need it. I'm sure I could manage with a torch if I did need to go in there after dark. Would this be a problem for you or could you also use a torch?

If the owner does use the supply, maybe they have a freezer in there etc. then they should expect to pay towards the cost. If it's mostly you who needs and uses power in your garage then perhaps you should accept paying the charges and offer your neighbour a suitable LED bulb to keep your costs down.

The bigger issue I would think would be the standing charge - which could quite reasonably eclipse the actual use.

Having the meter removed would cost a few hundred pounds (and it might be the neighbour can't decide unilaterally to do so if it's a shared supply - depending what's in the deeds) so if the way forward is sub-meters then the few hundred pound installation would cost should reasonably (to my mind) balance 50% of the standing charge for the 6 years you could get back via the courts (and would save everyone the bother and acrimony of taking a neighbour to court). 

I am assuming both OP and neighbour only have 1 meter each and so both are paying a full service charge already so nothing to be shared. What the OP has been unwittingly paying is the usage of the garage of the neighbour which doesn't sound as if it's too high anyway. 

I'm not sure what you mean? Every meter which is not a sub-meter attracts a standing charge. 

The issue is the two garages share a meter (which is separate from the household meters) - so the OP and neighbour have each been paying for usage and standing charges for their homes AND the OP has been paying the usage and standing charge for the meter which serves both garages when it should reasonably have been split 50/50.