Smart meter criteria

Davesquire

I have beed reluctant to have an energy smart meter fitted to-date, due to the lack of clarity over control and the horror stories in the press (though appreciating that these are individual cases against thousands of "eventless" installations). 
As I am being hounded by my energy supplier to agree to a smart meter (including individual emails), I have drawn up my own criteria, which I expect my energy supplier to agree to for fitting to be agreed.
The question is, do "Formites" consider these reasonable. Furthermore, should they form part of an over-arching agreement (similar to the Direct Debit guarantee)?
The criteria are:

1. The smart meter (hereto referred to as the "meter") does not and is not able to receive or transmit any data from any devices within, or near to the location of the meter, with the exception of the meter itself;

2. The meter will not interfere with any reception or transmission of any other device within the property, not interfere with the reception of any other signal of any legally permitted frequency of the occupier's choosing;

3. With the exception of necessary information for the billing for the use of electricity and gas, no other information will be collected stored or shared with third parties regarding the nature of use of electricity or gas;

4. The meter is not able to, or will not default to, prevention or interruption of supply of electricity or gas being supplied to the property;

5. Any interruption to the supply of electricity or gas due to meter fault or failure will be remedied and the supply fully restored within a period of not more than 24 hours;

6. The meter will be set to "dumb" mode, i.e. the meter will not transmit or receive data, until a request to change has been received from the occupier [Note: to allow me to assess performance for a couple months before going "live"] .

Do you consider that these are sufficient, excessive or about right?

Your views are welcome.

Netexporter

Ignore the misinformation. Get a smart meter. Potentially save money by having access to TOU tariffs.

Ayr_Rage

Ignore the misinformation. Get a smart meter. Potentially save money by having access to TOU tariffs.

GingerTim

Regarding the 'dumb smart meter' thing, which has always deemed an oxymoron to me, see this post from another thread by @Dolor

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80320924/#Comment_80320924

Dolor said:

When I was last in discussion with someone who knows about smart metering, he told me that there is no such thing as a dumb smart meter: it is simply, a supplier not using smart meter readings for billing.  Installers need to fit a comms hub to install and commission a smart metering system, and it is self evident from the OP’s post that the comms hub was linked to a network - otherwise it could not be updated OTA.

General view about this 'agreement' - it will be ignored. Eventually, like everyone else, your property will have a smart meter. 

MultiFuelBurner

Davesquire said:

I have beed reluctant to have an energy smart meter fitted to-date, due to the lack of clarity over control and the horror stories in the press (though appreciating that these are individual cases against thousands of "eventless" installations). 
As I am being hounded by my energy supplier to agree to a smart meter (including individual emails), I have drawn up my own criteria, which I expect my energy supplier to agree to for fitting to be agreed.
The question is, do "Formites" consider these reasonable. Furthermore, should they form part of an over-arching agreement (similar to the Direct Debit guarantee)?
The criteria are:

1. The smart meter (hereto referred to as the "meter") does not and is not able to receive or transmit any data from any devices within, or near to the location of the meter, with the exception of the meter itself;

2. The meter will not interfere with any reception or transmission of any other device within the property, not interfere with the reception of any other signal of any legally permitted frequency of the occupier's choosing;

3. With the exception of necessary information for the billing for the use of electricity and gas, no other information will be collected stored or shared with third parties regarding the nature of use of electricity or gas;

4. The meter is not able to, or will not default to, prevention or interruption of supply of electricity or gas being supplied to the property;

5. Any interruption to the supply of electricity or gas due to meter fault or failure will be remedied and the supply fully restored within a period of not more than 24 hours;

6. The meter will be set to "dumb" mode, i.e. the meter will not transmit or receive data, until a request to change has been received from the occupier [Note: to allow me to assess performance for a couple months before going "live"] .

Do you consider that these are sufficient, excessive or about right?

Your views are welcome.

No I don't think these terms of service you have drawn up can be accepted by the supplier. They own the meter wherever it is in your property and can replace it at will. They are being kind letting you be a part of the process by contacting you.

You do appear to have been taken in by misinformation looking at your terms if service.

What are you fearful of with a smart meter?

Brie

They seem to me to be all admirable terms but frankly any supplier can ignore the lot.  It does feel like letting go and losing control but I found it quite positive myself.  Granted I'm not in massive debt to any supplier so have no fear of them doing anything silly with my readings, just using them to establish my use and therefore how much I need to pay.

Scot_39

Your terms and conditions - no one is even going to read - let alone agree to them all.

And for many part of the advantage id the IHD - so knowing how much energy you are using instantaneously - which your point 1 - blocks.

If you want a supply - you need a company owned / approved meter - it is not yours in most cases (most common owned are landlords in converted HMOs or those with non integrate export meters for solar etc)

If they deem that to be a Smart meter - then although not quite yet in some special areas and cases - pretty soon you can expect that to be near mandatory.  

And unless you want a very restricted tariff with most - not just time of uses but many fixed deals now require smart as a "leverage" - and the real possibility of potential future energy meter cost penalties - like the c€50 euro fee now beng applied in France.

One so desperate to avoid Ofgem fines - it is actually paying customers to have them. It's not your supplier driving this - the roll out and targets been a feature of govt policy since c2008 Energy bill iirc.

There are nearly 33m smart meters in UK - across homes and industry (remember most of the 29m homes need 2 - so not quite as high as you might think) - the majority for both gas - edit if include smart in dumb mode - and electric (in smart mode alone).

Surprisingly - a large numer - 5% of the 58% domestic - are in so called dumb mode - according to the govt's own stats

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1181440/Q2_2023_Smart_Meters_Statistics_Report.pdf

But that 58% has a long way to go to catch up with the iirc over 80% targets currently in France and initially proposed for Germany by c2025 iirc.

Not sure what the current Ofgem target is for 2023 in UK - anyone ?

EssexHebridean

Davesquire said:

I have beed reluctant to have an energy smart meter fitted to-date, due to the lack of clarity over control and the horror stories in the press (though appreciating that these are individual cases against thousands of "eventless" installations). 
As I am being hounded by my energy supplier to agree to a smart meter (including individual emails), I have drawn up my own criteria, which I expect my energy supplier to agree to for fitting to be agreed.
The question is, do "Formites" consider these reasonable. Furthermore, should they form part of an over-arching agreement (similar to the Direct Debit guarantee)?
The criteria are:

1. The smart meter (hereto referred to as the "meter") does not and is not able to receive or transmit any data from any devices within, or near to the location of the meter, with the exception of the meter itself;

2. The meter will not interfere with any reception or transmission of any other device within the property, not interfere with the reception of any other signal of any legally permitted frequency of the occupier's choosing;

3. With the exception of necessary information for the billing for the use of electricity and gas, no other information will be collected stored or shared with third parties regarding the nature of use of electricity or gas;

4. The meter is not able to, or will not default to, prevention or interruption of supply of electricity or gas being supplied to the property;

5. Any interruption to the supply of electricity or gas due to meter fault or failure will be remedied and the supply fully restored within a period of not more than 24 hours;

6. The meter will be set to "dumb" mode, i.e. the meter will not transmit or receive data, until a request to change has been received from the occupier [Note: to allow me to assess performance for a couple months before going "live"] .

Do you consider that these are sufficient, excessive or about right?

Your views are welcome.

Perhaps set out your concerns around the "lack of control" (control of what?) as a starting point, and people will almost certainly be able to set your mind at rest - as a rule these stem from people being concerned that the smart meter will somehow allow their own wifi network to be tapped in to (it can't - the two things are totally separate) or that the SM will allow "someone" to track their every move - when in fact your use of devices like a mobile phone would be a far better way of doing this, even if anyone should want to. And no - a smart meter can't tell when you put the kettle on, use your electric nose-hair trimmer or any other device, either!   

As for the horror stories in the press - these are indeed balanced out against not thousands, but millions of perfectly straightforward and problem free installations, so it's unlikely (although no, not impossible) that you would fall victim to anything you might have read about there, either. Indeed, many of the "it doesn't work" type stories actually relate to the IHD (in home device) and are nothing to do with the meter itself at all. And after all, if it DIDN'T work, then essentially you would just have a brand new, freshly calibrated meter which worked exactly the same way as your current one!

In terms of your conditions - do you currently have an agreement from your supplier to No's 3, 4 or 5? I'd be surprised if so!  

Spoonie_Turtle

Have a read around this site, especially this page https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/our-smart-network/protecting-data-on-the-smart-meter-network/
Also this site, especially this page and the others under the section 'operation' 
https://www.smartme.co.uk/home-area-network.html
Edit: this second website gives a lot more detail, which will hopefully either give you more clarity you're after, or give you the terms to look up to get more clarity.

Gerry1

No chance on 4. 

The electricity smart meter can limit the amount of power available (Load Limiting) or disconnect you completely (Load Shedding).  Similarly, the gas meter has a Shut Off Valve.

Qyburn

Gerry1 said:

No chance on 4. 

The electricity smart meter can limit the amount of power available (Load Limiting) or disconnect you completely (Load Shedding). 

I don't think it could it do that other than by switching off completely if some threshold is breached.