Taking a builder to court - will they actually pay?

chickennuggetto

We had a first floor side extension done 2 years ago.

Everything went OK during the build, but towards the end they refused to take a look at any problems - leaking gutters, shower not working, waste pipe to ensuite leaking etc. They also overcharged us by £600 and owe us £300 for returned bathroom items.

After 6 months of trying to get them to complete the outstanding work (including 3 months where the builder and plumber refused to return any calls/emails/messages) we started the dispute service with the Federation of Master Builders. 

The builders have periodically engaged with this process but have managed to drag it out for a year and have only fixed the shower, a temp fix on the waste pipe and two of the many leaks in the gutters (it was plumbed in wrong).

One of the biggest issues we have is a 20ft soil pipe that wraps round our house as during the build they discovered they couldn't put it under the kitchen floor. They didn't get the ground works checked by building control or tell building control the original waste plans changed so it didn't get inspected or signed off at the end of the build. It also leaks and moves and we have had many different contractors point out that it is not fit for purpose. We have found a solution to this which runs through our hallway and into existing drains - this option was there the whole time but for some reason not noticed. 

During the dispute the builders made us have an independent inspection from FMB (which supported us and recommended they needed to fix all their faulty work) and the manufacturer of the shower trays (one faulty tray was installed and another installed without securing the floor so is at risk of cracking) again, it supported us and blamed the builder for faulty work. 

The builder recently said they would make good all the issues and pay us back the money they owe, plus the £1000 we paid extra during the build for the unnecessary waste pipe that's not fit for purpose. BUT they are leaving the waste pipe, not removing it or sorting out an alternative to the waste, thus essentially leaving us without a functioning bathroom (it's currently fixed by some tape we wrapped round, so not a long term solution!). We said this would break our contract as we have paid for a functioning ensuite. They then came back saying they would give us £2500 and not do any work, without stating if this included all the money they owe us. They have since failed to reply to the FMB to clarify and they are on their final reminder. 

I feel we are at the end of the road with the FMB. Citizens advice said that we can take them to court but I am reluctant to do this as it seems like there is no way to actually get them to pay out even if we win (I am confident we will win). The quotes to just sort the waste are £2300, plus the money they owe and we are getting quotes for the other work now but I think small claims would do. The company is not a Ltd one, but a family builder with a company started in 1960s (the son has taken over). They have a good reputation and this whole thing seems to be out of character for them and we don't understand it as we didn't even fall out with them. It's really taken it's toll on our mental health.

I would take them to court if I knew we would get the money and this whole horrendous ordeal finished, but everyone says that companies just close and start up, or could pay 5p a week, or just never pay. So I don't know what to do! We can't afford to write it off.

Any advice appreciated! 

powergen_insider

If they never paid, the court could order bailiffs involved.

Do you think they'd close a business running since the 60s over a couple of grand?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Not being an LTD is a good start. 

A claim of £3001 up to £5000 is £205 to file which isn't a massive risk.

You would be looking at stating the service does not conform to the contract as it wasn't carried out with due care and skill and although you have requested a repeat performance the service still does not conform so you are seeking a price reduction to cover the costs of putting the works right. 

I would suggest you need something independent to support your claim (although anything they've admitted to in writing you'd hope would be a given). 

People can apply to the court to pay x per week (I would assume they need to show they can't afford it as they on low income or such), or indeed live at a house with nothing of value inside and leased cars sitting on the drive but you won't know until you (hopefully) win. 

I would send them a letter before action, there are online firms that will do this for a small fee (from around £3, I wouldn't pay more than £20ish), or templates on Google for you to send yourself, an official looking letter might give them a nudge, failing that you'd hope a busy builder wouldn't want to go through small claims over a poor job for a few grand and filing the papers will see a resolve.  

chickennuggetto

powergen_insider said:

If they never paid, the court could order bailiffs involved.

Do you think they'd close a business running since the 60s over a couple of grand?

Thank you  I thought they'd pop over and fix a leaking gutter, so tbh I've no idea what they would do at this point! 

shinytop

Taking them to court is quite easy and all done online.  You can claim for up to £10,000.  It is time consuming and will be stressful for some. 

But - they have already offered you £2500.  The dispute isn't therefore about whether they owe you money, but how much. How much would you be happy with?  Why not make them an offer to settle?  They probably don't want to go to court; the fact they are offering you money suggests they think they are liable and would lose.

ThisIsWeird

I presume you don't have Legal Protection included in your insurance policy?
Regardless, it would appear you have little to lose by doing this. As said before, I understand not being 'ltd' makes them personally liable, and surely a successful building co running for 30 years will have significant personal and business assets?
Small Claims, or Moneyclaim.org (no idea of the pros and cons, but suspect that the former gives you the face-to-face opportunity) - followed by bailiffs if (when) you win.
Folk cannot get away with '5p a week' if they clearly have assets, and it would be astonishing if these folk don't. They also have a reputation to lose, as clearly you would be leaving frank and honest feedback regarding the case.
Almost certainly they'll capitulate once the first legal step it made. If they don't, that'll almost certainly be to their major regret. I repeat - you have next to nothing to lose.
What would you prefer the outcome to be? They redo the necessary work as required, or they cover the cost of someone else doing so? For the latter, you will need solid quotes for the work, from separate trades if needed (eg a bathroom specialist), and usually more than one so that you can demonstrate your fairness.
Tbh, after that catalogue of very fundamental errors, I think you are in the position of rejecting giving the original builder an opportunity to sort the issues - you can surely cite a lack of trust in their abilities. Unless, say, they have a genuine 'excuse' such as their recently employed skilled builder having misrepresented themselves, and they've been sacked.
It does appear open-and-shut, and what have you to lose?

chickennuggetto

ThisIsWeird said:

I presume you don't have Legal Protection included in your insurance policy?
Regardless, it would appear you have little to lose by doing this. As said before, I understand not being 'ltd' makes them personally liable, and surely a successful building co running for 30 years will have significant personal and business assets?
Small Claims, or Moneyclaim.org (no idea of the pros and cons, but suspect that the former gives you the face-to-face opportunity) - followed by bailiffs if (when) you win.
Folk cannot get away with '5p a week' if they clearly have assets, and it would be astonishing if these folk don't. They also have a reputation to lose, as clearly you would be leaving frank and honest feedback regarding the case.
Almost certainly they'll capitulate once the first legal step it made. If they don't, that'll almost certainly be to their major regret. I repeat - you have next to nothing to lose.
What would you prefer the outcome to be? They redo the necessary work as required, or they cover the cost of someone else doing so? For the latter, you will need solid quotes for the work, from separate trades if needed (eg a bathroom specialist), and usually more than one so that you can demonstrate your fairness.
Tbh, after that catalogue of very fundamental errors, I think you are in the position of rejecting giving the original builder an opportunity to sort the issues - you can surely cite a lack of trust in their abilities. Unless, say, they have a genuine 'excuse' such as their recently employed skilled builder having misrepresented themselves, and they've been sacked.
It does appear open-and-shut, and what have you to lose?

Thank you for such a detailed answer. Just checked and we do have legal cover although it's a new policy so not sure they would let us use it in this instance. I've done a bit more digging and the FMB registered name and company name is a Ltd company but they operate without the Ltd and withoit the initials in the name (not on logo, vans, website etc) although their website fmb logo links to the Ltd company name. They also registered a new company in May (although I guess that maybe for tax purposes?). It's the three sons of the original owner. 
I found out today that they have until tomorrow for the FMB dispute then are expelled and we have no choice but to go to court. 

ThisIsWeird

Check your old insurance policy - if that also had LP, then one of them will technically cover you. 
If the new one does not, they will still - almost certainly - give you free advice, so still worth calling them for this, I think.
'Winning' is a near-cert, at least, so worth pursuing. It seems nuts that such a long-serving company would risk damaging their reputation. 
Good luck, and please keep us updated.
And give your LP a call! They should guide you.

Mistral001

Surely the problem with the soil pipe is a design fault.  Who did you get to design the extension for you?

MouldyOldDough

We are having a side extension built currently (wet room) and it's going extremely slowly at the moment

The builders (who have a good local reputation) appear to have no control over when their sub contractors turn up !

The waste pipe is similarly having to wrap round the building - with 2 or 3 intermediate "chambers" before it reaches the manhole

I just hope that we don't have similar problems to the OP.