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poppy12345

peteuk said:

deno2000 said:

Preparing food 2 poiints as she can use an aid to help. But with her disability some days she is not able to cook at all. 

Communicating 0 poiints yet her disability can offen get her confused.

Managing Treatments 0 points, yet if it wasnt for pill boxes and google reminders she gets quite mixed up.

and a few other things here and there. (without going into to much personal details)

She has only been awarded it for 2 years, even tho its a life long issue.

We dont really want to upset the boat and force a MR she only just scored the 8 points.

still abit confused about it, can we still ask for the report from the phone assessment ?

how come its only 2 years ?

As a previous PIP assessor please understand I don't tend to agree with all my comments but try to give an insight into the pip assessment itself.

Then why give advice then?

peteuk said:

deno2000 said:

Preparing food 2 poiints as she can use an aid to help. But with her disability some days she is not able to cook at all. 

Communicating 0 poiints yet her disability can offen get her confused.

Managing Treatments 0 points, yet if it wasnt for pill boxes and google reminders she gets quite mixed up.

and a few other things here and there. (without going into to much personal details)

She has only been awarded it for 2 years, even tho its a life long issue.

We dont really want to upset the boat and force a MR she only just scored the 8 points.

still abit confused about it, can we still ask for the report from the phone assessment ?

how come its only 2 years ?

Managing treatment - use of pill box or dosette box and phone reminders aren’t usually seen as aids.  I use a pill box more for memory than anything.  The questions around this is who fills the pill box, how many times do they forget to take medication (again has to be majority of times)

Again, i totally disagree with that. It is totally possible to score points for needing to use either of those. You can also try to have a little more understanding of the descriptors and what they means by reading this guide here. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities In that guide it also mentions dosette boxes and alarms for reminders.

HillStreetBlues

In my 3 PIP assessments I never scored any points using a dosette box, and use it out of need, so DM staff does seem to discount it when scored points in my experience (not saying they are correct in doing so).

peteuk

poppy12345 said:

Then why give advice then? 

The reason why I give advice like that above (which I don't agree with) is to let those new to PIP, see some of the frustrating things that occur during a PIP assessment.   Having a pill/dosette box means nothing, you can get them for a tenner on Amazon, but you need the condition behind it that would indicate you need it. 
For instance I have a well controlled simple diagnosis, controlled by two tables taken twice a day.  Ive brought a pill box for ease, it helps me keep track of when to put my repeat in.  I do occasionally forget to take them, but can I take medicine unaided?  Yes I can.

For something like arthritis of the fingers/hands/wrist where blister packs are impossible to use, then a pre-packed dosette box from the pharmacy might be viewed differently (hence the question I left on my previous reply, who packs the pill box) Because the theory behind this is, if you can remember to fill a box, you have the capacity to remember to take medication.  If you can manage to set a timer on a phone then you’re managing your medication.  Thats what it trained to the PIP assessors!

I totally feel the frustration of the OP, how can a pill box not be an aid? To prove the point

HillStreetBlues said:

In my 3 PIP assessments I never scored any points using a dosette box, and use it out of need, so DM staff does seem to discount it when scored points in my experience (not saying they are correct in doing so).

So why not question this?  What we have said is exactly the same, from different points of view. I as the assessor, HSB as the claimant.  We have both said we don't agree with it. 

It goes back to PIP not being about diagnosis, but actually being about diagnosis.   We all know having a diagnosis doesn't automatically get you PIP, but not having a specific diagnosis (for example a mental health diagnosis) will zero score certain activities, equally only having a single diagnosis will also zero score certain actives. 

I might not say what people want to hear, but what I try to say is actually from my experience.  Yes I argued the point of a client having a dossette box and had it ripped to pieces by audit, and told to zero score it, for the assessment to pass audit.   I also had someone who had SORN their car but had it on their drive because they claimed they could no longer drive, audited and told they could drive, it was not an automatic therefore had the movement in hands/feet amidst deteriorating arthritis… I could go on.

PIP is totally screwed in my opinion! Needs ripping up and starting again, with some common sense and actual medical evidence applied.  I started to think it was done mainly by probationers and then gate-kept by audit.   I saw so many not make the grade, or leave before passing probation.  Becoming frustrated with the role and although employed for their medical knowledge have that knowledge questioned.    As a nurse I was expected to understand Youth offending, remand, release from jail on licence (without training) and the effect that has on the claimant and health.  I worked Ortho most my career…. But the really kicker is when you apply what you did yesterday to a claimant with the same problems/diagnosis and have it torn apart…  

Alice_Holt

HillStreetBlues said:

In my 3 PIP assessments I never scored any points using a dosette box, and use it out of need, so DM staff does seem to discount it when scored points in my experience (not saying they are correct in doing so).

       This poor standard of assessments possibly explains the 70% PIP success rate at tribunal appeals.

       At my local Cit A the success rate for PIP appeals is more than 90%, with it not uncommon to go from a nil award to enhanced. I feel for those who are subject to a flawed assessment but can't get help and can't face taking it to appeal themselves. So many disabled people must be disadvantaged by the shockingly poor standard of some assessments.

    I'd like to see the cost of appeals being borne by the DWP and not HMCTS.
    I'd also like the tribunal decision notice to be seen by the assessors as a learning tool so that they can be disabused of incorrect notions such as a dossete box / alarm aren't aids.  However that is a single PIP point so often inconsequential. In my experience flawed assessments often relate to mental health / depression and sadly those are the claimants who can struggle to navigate the appeal process.

HillStreetBlues

peteuk said:

HillStreetBlues said:

In my 3 PIP assessments I never scored any points using a dosette box, and use it out of need, so DM staff does seem to discount it when scored points in my experience (not saying they are correct in doing so).

So why not question this?  What we have said is exactly the same, from different points of view. I as the assessor, HSB as the claimant.  We have both said we don't agree with it.

I apologise if it was mean as a rhetorical question, sometimes hard to tell on a forum. The reason I personally never challenged it was it made no difference to my award, as I have 9 points.
If it did matter, then I would have challenged it. So many people think it's just helps to remember to take the pills (which it does), but forget the other reason is to remind a person they have taken their pills. I could easily take 3 doses instead of 1 at night as I simple forget I have taken them. I can be certain I haven't taken them, but the dosette box tells me I have.  So for that reason it's a much needed aid.

ayupmeduck

why does she use a dosette box, who fills it, does she have a cognitive or a physical impairment etc

mental health is rarely considered for communication, anxiety, confusion, is not considered. Social communication issues comes under 'engaging'. Learning difficulties, sensory impairments and cognitive impairments are the main ones use.

Chrysalis

Muttleythefrog said:

deno2000 said:

actually we have just re-read it it doesnt state its for 2 years, it says

"We will also contact you while you are getting PIP to see if your needs have changed and to look at the amount you get. This will be after 4 oct 2025"

Sorry this is all new to us, that now sounds like its just a check up on her in 2 years rather than its only for 2 years.  (is that right ? or was i right the first way i was thinking)

Sounds like they've awarded it for 3 years rather than 2 as they usually use the final year of the award as a sort of review period during which she could expect to have entitlement re-looked at (currently they're so backlogged that year is actually insufficient so they're extending awards still being reviewed to prevent awards 'running out'). Usually the award adds a year on to prognosis in the HCP's report to create that year period for reviewing entitlement. But surely in the award letter or on the Statement of Entitlement section or standardly both it should state something in the terms of 'we have awarded you x from y until z' ...? I would imagine z is 4 Oct 2026 but do confirm if not. 3 year award is not unusual (falls into that sort of area of likely long term problems but that could improve with time or future treatment .. the report itself should shed light on the Healthcare Professional's mind).. although if the problems are lifelong and with no chance of improvement it might need eyes cast over. 

Friend got PIP award extended for 18 months, the original period has expired, and not even a sniff of a review yet, so rather than the extension been used to allow more time for the review, it seems to actually delay the review?

I advised my friend to contact the DWP to make sure letter not gone missing or something, because these awards do actually have an expiry, and they shouldnt risk it expiring without review, but really hesitant to.  Currently about 10 months away now from expiry.

Muttleythefrog

Chrysalis said:

Muttleythefrog said:

deno2000 said:

actually we have just re-read it it doesnt state its for 2 years, it says

"We will also contact you while you are getting PIP to see if your needs have changed and to look at the amount you get. This will be after 4 oct 2025"

Sorry this is all new to us, that now sounds like its just a check up on her in 2 years rather than its only for 2 years.  (is that right ? or was i right the first way i was thinking)

Sounds like they've awarded it for 3 years rather than 2 as they usually use the final year of the award as a sort of review period during which she could expect to have entitlement re-looked at (currently they're so backlogged that year is actually insufficient so they're extending awards still being reviewed to prevent awards 'running out'). Usually the award adds a year on to prognosis in the HCP's report to create that year period for reviewing entitlement. But surely in the award letter or on the Statement of Entitlement section or standardly both it should state something in the terms of 'we have awarded you x from y until z' ...? I would imagine z is 4 Oct 2026 but do confirm if not. 3 year award is not unusual (falls into that sort of area of likely long term problems but that could improve with time or future treatment .. the report itself should shed light on the Healthcare Professional's mind).. although if the problems are lifelong and with no chance of improvement it might need eyes cast over. 

Friend got PIP award extended for 18 months, the original period has expired, and not even a sniff of a review yet, so rather than the extension been used to allow more time for the review, it seems to actually delay the review?

I advised my friend to contact the DWP to make sure letter not gone missing or something, because these awards do actually have an expiry, and they shouldnt risk it expiring without review, but really hesitant to.  Currently about 10 months away now from expiry.

As it happens I just got an extension 12 month letter today as my review not complete. The DWP are scheduled to extend awards being reviewed when 35 days of award are left although my letter is dated such as it looks closer to 31 days.

MrsBrooks13

 I also got an extension 12 month letter as my review is not complete either. It was due in August last year, didn’t arrive until January this year and I returned it within two weeks with loads of medical evidence and reports. I scored 11 daily living points for my original award, so with further gradual deterioration and subsequent Ill Health Retirement was hoping for one more this time to get me to enhanced rate. What happens now if when this extension is reviewed in 6-12 months AND I’m lucky enough to get 12+ points - would they back date to when the original review should’ve been undertaken….. ?