delete

deno2000

no longer needed

Muttleythefrog

Yes I would always advise getting hold of assessment reports ASAP... you can call the PIP number on letter and ask for copy of the report.

2 years if not explained in the award will likely have some explanation in the report which decision makers at the DWP tend to go with for taking decisions. 

MRs usually result in no changed decision but they can. Claimants tend to have much greater chances at appeal tribunal after that.

The risks are generally low of a MR. In my general view (as don't know enough about the circumstances) I'd say if you think she should have gotten an enhanced award for either or both components then MR and if necessary appeal. The duration of the award is quite low (notably so if indeed the underlying problems that have been considered as relevantly disabling are permanent or unlikely to improve) and I think if the report is nonsensical or unjustified in 'prognosis' then that would elevate my suggesting of MR/appeal and especially if expecting higher award. 

So first step get the report... hopefully you'll get that after about a week from request.

PIP assessment reports and decisions can be hit and miss... often poor quality or with inconsistency/errors. Probably the greatest risk of defect is with initial application given a lack of history of award and assessments.

deno2000

thanks for your reply Muttleythefrog, we will request the report on monday

deno2000

actually we have just re-read it it doesnt state its for 2 years, it says

"We will also contact you while you are getting PIP to see if your needs have changed and to look at the amount you get. This will be after 4 oct 2025"

Sorry this is all new to us, that now sounds like its just a check up on her in 2 years rather than its only for 2 years.  (is that right ? or was i right the first way i was thinking)

Muttleythefrog

deno2000 said:

actually we have just re-read it it doesnt state its for 2 years, it says

"We will also contact you while you are getting PIP to see if your needs have changed and to look at the amount you get. This will be after 4 oct 2025"

Sorry this is all new to us, that now sounds like its just a check up on her in 2 years rather than its only for 2 years.  (is that right ? or was i right the first way i was thinking)

Sounds like they've awarded it for 3 years rather than 2 as they usually use the final year of the award as a sort of review period during which she could expect to have entitlement re-looked at (currently they're so backlogged that year is actually insufficient so they're extending awards still being reviewed to prevent awards 'running out'). Usually the award adds a year on to prognosis in the HCP's report to create that year period for reviewing entitlement. But surely in the award letter or on the Statement of Entitlement section or standardly both it should state something in the terms of 'we have awarded you x from y until z' ...? I would imagine z is 4 Oct 2026 but do confirm if not. 3 year award is not unusual (falls into that sort of area of likely long term problems but that could improve with time or future treatment .. the report itself should shed light on the Healthcare Professional's mind).. although if the problems are lifelong and with no chance of improvement it might need eyes cast over. 

deno2000

thanks again for all your help Muttleythefrog. i do like this site

Alice_Holt

Re  the MR.

   To get the enhanced rate 12 points are needed.

   So you would need to identify and show why 4 extra DL points should have been awarded as she can't do those PIP activities / descriptors reliably on the majority of days.

  Unless you can clearly show an increased award should have been awarded, I advise thinking very carefully on embarking on the MR / appeal process.  The greatest risk is at MR stage, it's rare but awards can be withdrawn by the second DWP decision maker.

Clearly the managing medication score is incorrect. One point should be scored as she uses a pill box / reminder (classed as an aid).
Re cooking - whether a higher scoring descriptor should apply is likely to depend on if she needs assistance on the majority of days (you say some days). You would need to be precise about the variability, and what she can / can't do.
Communicating - this is more concerned with hearing and understanding what people are saying to you (physical issues) .  Confusion is likely to be more relevant to the mixing with other people activity - did she score points for that descriptor?  

I'd always suggest anyone with an award, but thinking of doing a MR, gets advice from their local advice charity first.
It also depends on how well the PIP2 form was written, an MR / appeal citing difficulties not included on the PIP form is on shaky grounds.

 You need to be sure that additional points would result in an increased award, as the DWP can withdraw points at the MR stage (whereas the tribunal service will warn you first). 

   

Muttleythefrog

deno2000 said:

Nope. She didn't get any in that. (Com)
When it comes to cooking we clearly said at least 3 days a week she would be unable to cook or even if she trys I may have to step in and finish. 

Don't get me wrong we are happy she got on it but the points seem to be all over the place or not even counted.  Hence wondering about the report/Mr. Its hard for us to say if she should get the other 4 points (we are to new to all this). But the thought has crossed our minds about her renewal.. like if we don't act now and contest stuff will it go against her down the line. Will asking for the report jeopardise anything etc ?.

We thought all the stress and paperwork would be over when we got the award. How wrong was we haha. 

Asking for the report is risk free.... and I would advise it's always obtained even if happy and agreeing with the award.

A good quality of guidance is available on the CAB website. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/

From that link are those for Mandatory Reconsideration (advising how to do it) and also this link https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form-pip/ which although not directly relevant at this moment opens up good linked detail in relation to each activity of PIP to help understand and make a case in relation to which disablements (descriptors) are relevant and applicable.

poppy12345

deno2000 said:

Nope. She didn't get any in that. (Com)
When it comes to cooking we clearly said at least 3 days a week she would be unable to cook or even if she trys I may have to step in and finish. 

"At least 3 days" that is not the majority of the days. This means at least 50% of the days over a 12 month period. "You may have to step in" You need to be clear on exactly what she can and can't do and at the moment it seems like you're unsure.

Why can't she prepare a meal using aids on the majority of the days? Does she need a perching stool perhaps? If this is needed, why can't she use this? why do you need to step in? What happens for you to have to step in to help? How often does this happen and what exactly happened the last time she attempted this activity?

Alice makes some very good points. If you're not clear on where the extra points could be scored and why then going forward with the MR and Tribunal could be a waste of time.

peteuk

deno2000 said:

Preparing food 2 poiints as she can use an aid to help. But with her disability some days she is not able to cook at all. 

Communicating 0 poiints yet her disability can offen get her confused.

Managing Treatments 0 points, yet if it wasnt for pill boxes and google reminders she gets quite mixed up.

and a few other things here and there. (without going into to much personal details)

She has only been awarded it for 2 years, even tho its a life long issue.

We dont really want to upset the boat and force a MR she only just scored the 8 points.

still abit confused about it, can we still ask for the report from the phone assessment ?

how come its only 2 years ?

As a previous PIP assessor please understand I don't tend to agree with all my comments but try to give an insight into the pip assessment itself.

Preparing food - already covered 

Managing treatment - use of pill box or dosette box and phone reminders aren’t usually seen as aids.  I use a pill box more for memory than anything.  The questions around this is who fills the pill box, how many times do they forget to take medication (again has to be majority of times)

Communication - I will need to look at my training posters.  Can’t remember if this falls under mental health conditions only.  

All awarding pip assessments are given a review date, up to 10 yrs based on the conditions claimed and the effects on the claimant.  I believe minimum is 2 years now.  At this point you will be sent a review questionnaire and when completed it will be assessed alongside your current pip assessment and a decision made on if you need another full pip assessment.  It may go to paper assessment so you wont need the telephone assessment, 

Alice_Holt

peteuk said:

deno2000 said:

Preparing food 2 poiints as she can use an aid to help. But with her disability some days she is not able to cook at all. 

Communicating 0 poiints yet her disability can offen get her confused.

Managing Treatments 0 points, yet if it wasnt for pill boxes and google reminders she gets quite mixed up.

and a few other things here and there. (without going into to much personal details)

She has only been awarded it for 2 years, even tho its a life long issue.

We dont really want to upset the boat and force a MR she only just scored the 8 points.

still abit confused about it, can we still ask for the report from the phone assessment ?

how come its only 2 years ?

Managing treatment - use of pill box or dosette box and phone reminders aren’t usually seen as aids.... 

   Whilst this may be instilled into their assessors by the private companies conducting flawed PIP assessments, guidance and case law says different.      

  This is from HMG's PIP assessment guide:

     "Examples of aids to help manage medication include dosette boxes, alarms and reminders"


   From Citizens Advice guide to completing the PIP2 form

  "List the aids you use to help you including things like dosette boxes and alarms. 

Never miss an aid off your list because you think it's obvious, and always:

• explain how they help you

• explain what would happen if you didn't use them

• make it clear if a health professional advised you to use them

• list any items that would help you if you had them

• include any that your condition prevents you from using"

     
Here is a Rightsnet discussion on this topic -https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/12497/#58070 

Including a comment by a welfare rights officer -  "A dosette box has been consistently used as an illustration of an aid by DWP and this has been equally consistently supported in case law,"

 
The caveat being (as with all PIP aids) that its use is necessarily required because of the disability / illness and not just a preference.