Faulty Radiator. Can I claim labour?

niceguyed

Hi everyone. I purchased two radiators in Dec 22 which were installed of March this year as part of a new system. New system installed as per manufacturers spec. Noticed last night one of the 'designer' tubular radiators has extensive paint cracking and bubbling all over. There's no leaks and all other radiators are fine. We sourced the rads ourselves for our plumber to fit. Can only assume a Friday afternoon paint job. 

I've emailed the firm in question (sent pics and a video) and they got back in touch quickly to say they will send over a replacement. I did also request they pay for the labour to get the defective radiator removed and new one installed citing Section 23 of the CRA. Was happy to get a quote and send in advance. They have emailed back today and refused saying it's in their terms and conditions that they can't be held liable.

After honest opinions on recourse (if any). Was paid for via credit card (but assuming CCC only interested in the purchase price). Thanks in advance.

DullGreyGuy

Thank them for pointing out their terms of sale but remind them that you are referring to your statutory rights under 23(2)(b) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which their terms of sale cannot override. 

The credit card company, under S75, would be jointly liable if each radiator is over £100

Belenus

As far as I am aware, they are not liable for your labour costs. You are perhaps fortunate that they are sending a replacement without argument. 

Can you fit the replacement yourself? If it is the same size that should be a straightforward job. If you can't, and don't have a friend or relative with basic plumbing skills, perhaps the original plumber will give you a low price for doing the job.

Can you refurbish the damaged radiator by painting it and sell it to recover some of your losses?

Aylesbury_Duck

Another case that shows it's probably better to engage a plumber to supply and fit.  Then the problem of refitting is theirs to resolve with the retailer.  

Grumpy_chap

niceguyed said:

Hi everyone. I purchased two radiators in Dec 22 which were installed of March this year as part of a new system. New system installed as per manufacturers spec. Noticed last night one of the 'designer' tubular radiators has extensive paint cracking and bubbling all over. There's no leaks and all other radiators are fine. We sourced the rads ourselves for our plumber to fit. Can only assume a Friday afternoon paint job. 

I've emailed the firm in question (sent pics and a video) and they got back in touch quickly to say they will send over a replacement. I did also request they pay for the labour to get the defective radiator removed and new one installed citing Section 23 of the CRA. Was happy to get a quote and send in advance. They have emailed back today and refused saying it's in their terms and conditions that they can't be held liable.

After honest opinions on recourse (if any). Was paid for via credit card (but assuming CCC only interested in the purchase price). Thanks in advance.

There have been other threads where people have postulated that the removal and refitting costs are all recoverable under consumer rights.

However, in this case, is the radiator actually "faulty" as a genuine manufacturing defect, or is the supplier simply agreeing under a "goodwill" endeavour?
Two similar radiators, presumably from similar manufacturing batches, but only one is exhibiting the cracking and bubbling paint.  
Is there any difference in the location and environment of the two radiators?
Is one of them in an area that can be subject to water splashing, for example?  Water of any kind, which may even be corrosive in some locations.

niceguyed

Thanks for the replies.Belenus said:

As far as I am aware, they are not liable for your labour costs. You are perhaps fortunate that they are sending a replacement without argument. 

Can you fit the replacement yourself? If it is the same size that should be a straightforward job. If you can't, and don't have a friend or relative with basic plumbing skills, perhaps the original plumber will give you a low price for doing the job.

Can you refurbish the damaged radiator by painting it and sell it to recover some of your losses?

Thanks for the reply. Even if I trusted myself to change it my wife certainly would not! I think the paint job is fairly done for, likely I'll give it away on a local upcycle page. 

niceguyed

Grumpy_chap said:

niceguyed said:

Hi everyone. I purchased two radiators in Dec 22 which were installed of March this year as part of a new system. New system installed as per manufacturers spec. Noticed last night one of the 'designer' tubular radiators has extensive paint cracking and bubbling all over. There's no leaks and all other radiators are fine. We sourced the rads ourselves for our plumber to fit. Can only assume a Friday afternoon paint job. 

I've emailed the firm in question (sent pics and a video) and they got back in touch quickly to say they will send over a replacement. I did also request they pay for the labour to get the defective radiator removed and new one installed citing Section 23 of the CRA. Was happy to get a quote and send in advance. They have emailed back today and refused saying it's in their terms and conditions that they can't be held liable.

After honest opinions on recourse (if any). Was paid for via credit card (but assuming CCC only interested in the purchase price). Thanks in advance.

There have been other threads where people have postulated that the removal and refitting costs are all recoverable under consumer rights.

However, in this case, is the radiator actually "faulty" as a genuine manufacturing defect, or is the supplier simply agreeing under a "goodwill" endeavour?
Two similar radiators, presumably from similar manufacturing batches, but only one is exhibiting the cracking and bubbling paint.  
Is there any difference in the location and environment of the two radiators?
Is one of them in an area that can be subject to water splashing, for example?  Water of any kind, which may even be corrosive in some locations.

The supplier is agreeing it is faulty rather than going down the no liability 'goodwill' route, There is nothing environmental that leads me to think that is the issue, the affected rad is in a dining area just off from the kitchen, not subject to any splashes or high humidity. I'm assuming a problem with the paint application either due to the substrate (perhaps not fully clean) or in the paint mix. 

niceguyed

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Another case that shows it's probably better to engage a plumber to supply and fit.  Then the problem of refitting is theirs to resolve with the retailer.  

Yeah, I'd agree usually. In this instance I could source the 2 designer rads,  valves, and then 8 double Stelrads for £250 less than the plumber due to a combo of offers. Ironically, all the rads (even the defective one) is well reviewed including the retailer so I did my best with my homework. I think I naively assumed any issues would become apparent on install. Lesson learned. 

niceguyed

Thanks for all the replies I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. I can see from my esteemed forumites that there may be some recourse from S23b. However, I remembered I have legal cover on my home insurance who I duly called.  Their advice, which I can't say was delivered confidently, was that the goods and any install/labour costs are separate contracts so they are not liable. I did read out the relevant part of the CRA and questioned how does that work with a radiator that must be installed? Their advice then shifted, and they said my only option is to test it in court. 

The retailer has come back from a more sternly worded follow up with an offer of a significant discount on another radiator, but said it's an industry standard not to refund labour costs. We do actually need a new rad for a garage conversion but I'm wary until I know how solid or not a claim would be for the labour cost. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

If you are talking to the place you purchased the rads from i.e the retailer (rather than the manufacturer, unless they are both manufacture and your retailer) then the law is clear that they must cover the costs of labour as part of providing a repair or replacement. 

I'd get the replacement from them and then send a letter before action for the reasonable costs you suffer for swapping it over, I'd also get something in writing to confirm they don't want the old rad back before disposing of it. 

Regarding the comments above about supply and fit, I don't think it makes much difference as a tradesperson could misunderstand the law just as much as a retailer and request payment for the labour in swapping over meaning in either case there's always the risk of having the headache of enforcing your rights. 

Just to add if each rad was over £100 then the credit provider is jointly liable under the contract, that includes the implied terms under the CRA so you could go down a S75 route for the labour if after having had the rads swapped the retailer still refuses to cover the labour