EasyJet rejected claim - 'severe weather'

woollyhaggis

I'm in the middle of a similar-ish claim with Easyjet, at the point of about to raise with ADR. I would be really interested in seeing the long defence document (I tried but I have to request access, so wanted to check if I can see it before I request). In my case I was on EZY214 Edinburgh-Bristol on Sat 3rd Feb, we were delayed and then diverted to Gatwick because the A321 plane was too big to land safely in the weather conditions at Bristol. However every other scheduled flight was able to land in Bristol that morning. 

Easyjet have refused to engage at all with any arguments and ignored my request for evidence that they took steps to avoid the delay, they just keep repeating:
"To further explain what happened on the day; Poor weather, low visibility and strong head wind over Bristol meant that the aircraft was below legal limits to be able to land and had to divert to Gatwick As weather conditions were not forecast to improve for some time, coaches were arranged to take our customers by road to your destination. We do take reasonable measures to avoid delays and cancellations to our flights by having replacement crews and spare aircraft available in our network. In the circumstances, these options were not possible as the delay to your flight was a direct result of adverse weather conditions."

eskbanker

Surely if EasyJet are refusing to engage in any substantive debate and aren't providing any further information, then, assuming you've received their final response, you might as well just go ahead to Aviation ADR, after which you'll receive a defence document pertaining specifically to your case?  You get the opportunity to make your counter-arguments in response to that then....

woollyhaggis

Of course @eskbanker , just curious about what to expect and whether I can pre-empt anything.

brianposter

Wooly, I would say that there should be no prospect of your claim being accepted. Bristol airport is not the easiest place to land and nobody diverts if they can avoid it.

bagand96

woollyhaggis said:

Of course @eskbanker , just curious about what to expect and whether I can pre-empt anything.

It was a pretty bad weather day at Bristol with thick fog all morning. Whilst most flights did land (a couple of others also diverted) what matters is the weather conditions at the time your aircraft arrived there. If it's out of limits then for safety reasons the decision to divert is inevitable. And Bristol is not a place to be messed with in bad weather. 

Wish you luck at ADR.

eskbanker

woollyhaggis said:

Of course @eskbanker , just curious about what to expect and whether I can pre-empt anything.

Their defence will inevitably echo their rebuttals thus far, in terms of confirming that it wasn't viable for the aircraft to land at Bristol, but with more detail about how there weren't any reasonable measures that they could have taken to avoid or mitigate the effects of the extraordinary circumstances (having already ruled out deployment of other aircraft or crew), so if you're asserting that there were things they could/should reasonably have done then you'll be expected to identify these.

woollyhaggis

Thanks for the various responses, I appreciate getting some alternative perspectives. I'm only seeing EZY214 and EZY2778 (from Grenoble) diverting that morning, and they both had the same problem, A321neo planes were too big to land safely - did I miss some? We were scheduled to arrive at 9.45am, Easyjet (A320 planes) from Belfast/Milan managed to land at 9.51am/10.11am without any trouble. The A321 was part of the reason I was interested in the response from EasyJet for the OP, as I wondered if there were arguments specific to it.

I'm variously arguing that they could have used a different plane (plenty A320s in Edinburgh that morning), booked people onto the later flight to Bristol (there was space, ultimately would have been a bad option but no-one knew that at the time), and not forced a 2 hour wait for buses to Bristol from Gatwick after we landed there.

I'm not convinced that fog and gusty wind constitutes extraordinary conditions in Bristol in February but I realise it's probably a weaker argument.

I've submitted to the ADR now, but not holding my breath!

eskbanker

Some thoughts, from a devil's advocate perspective:

woollyhaggis said:
A321neo planes were too big to land safely

Was this stated as fact by EasyJet either verbally or in writing?

woollyhaggis said:

I'm variously arguing that they could have used a different plane (plenty A320s in Edinburgh that morning)

Plenty of spare A320s in Edinburgh that morning?  Using what criteria would they have been expected to whittle down the passengers to the smaller capacity, or was the flight far from full?

woollyhaggis said:

booked people onto the later flight to Bristol (there was space, ultimately would have been a bad option but no-one knew that at the time)

They could perhaps have offered that as an option, but presumably you're not advocating that they should have chosen not to operate the flight at all?

woollyhaggis said:

and not forced a 2 hour wait for buses to Bristol from Gatwick after we landed there

'Forced' seems an odd term in the circumstances - sourcing multiple buses/drivers and coordinating the logistics of getting passengers and their baggage onto them is far from an instantaneous process!  However, even if the delay could have been, say, four hours instead of six, that wouldn't actually make any difference to their liability to pay compensation, or do you think they realistically could have got you to Bristol within three hours of your scheduled arrival time there?

woollyhaggis said:

I'm not convinced that fog and gusty wind constitutes extraordinary conditions in Bristol in February but I realise it's probably a weaker argument.

The example cited in the regulations is "meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned", rather than these being unexpected as such.

woollyhaggis said:

I've submitted to the ADR now, but not holding my breath!

It's a long slow process, but keep us posted!

brianposter

I would suggest that the OP is wasting everybodys time.

woollyhaggis

woollyhaggis said:
A321neo planes were too big to land safely

Was this stated as fact by EasyJet either verbally or in writing?

Yes, verbally by the pilot.

woollyhaggis said:

I'm variously arguing that they could have used a different plane (plenty A320s in Edinburgh that morning)

Plenty of spare A320s in Edinburgh that morning?  Using what criteria would they have been expected to whittle down the passengers to the smaller capacity, or was the flight far from full?

Easyjet are the ones saying they had spare aircraft. There were viable swaps in Edinburgh (in my inexpert opinion). Initially the flight was busy, but not full. After 75 mins delay in Edinburgh and told of the likelihood of diverting to Gatwick, the option to disembark for a refund was given and a large number of passengers got off, around half the plane. There were also spaces on the 12.40 flight to Bristol, which I know because the 3 passengers in the row behind me booked themselves onto it (not provided as an option from Easyjet). It seems to me that between some passengers bailing, and some moving onto the later flight, there was enough flexibility there to reduce the capacity for an A320.

woollyhaggis said:

booked people onto the later flight to Bristol (there was space, ultimately would have been a bad option but no-one knew that at the time)

They could perhaps have offered that as an option, but presumably you're not advocating that they should have chosen not to operate the flight at all?

No I'm not suggesting that.

eskbanker said:

woollyhaggis said:

and not forced a 2 hour wait for buses to Bristol from Gatwick after we landed there

'Forced' seems an odd term in the circumstances - sourcing multiple buses/drivers and coordinating the logistics of getting passengers and their baggage onto them is far from an instantaneous process!  However, even if the delay could have been, say, four hours instead of six, that wouldn't actually make any difference to their liability to pay compensation, or do you think they realistically could have got you to Bristol within three hours of your scheduled arrival time there?

It's not like we suddenly dropped out of the sky at 12pm - we were told sometime before 9.40am that there was a 90% chance of diverting to Gatwick, so Easyjet had at least 2.5 hours warning. There was no possibility of getting us to Bristol within 3 hours because we left Edinburgh 2 hours late. My background reading on this indicated that the airline should prove that they took all possible measures to re-route affected passengers at the earliest opportunity, including alternative transport measures. I think it's unlikely that a 2 hour wait for a bus and a 3 hour bus journey (per Google maps) was the best they could do, but I'm probably more fixated on this than I should be because that wait meant I couldn't use the bus and had to pay for a train instead, due to onward travel arrangements.

eskbanker said:

woollyhaggis said:

I'm not convinced that fog and gusty wind constitutes extraordinary conditions in Bristol in February but I realise it's probably a weaker argument.

The example cited in the regulations is "meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned", rather than these being unexpected as such.

Depends on whether that is flight or aircraft? I think the flight was operable in the weather conditions, just not with that aircraft. Additionally background reading suggested that weather that is inherent in the normal exercise of the carrier’s activity does not constitute extraordinary circumstances.

Thanks again for your input, and I will feed back on the ADR at whatever point in the distant future...