Do energy firms have to tell you if Economy 7 is not cheapest?

1984

I've been on Economy 7 for years. Having fixed tariff for 2 years I'm fortunately only now hitting the increased energy prices and paying a bit of attention to them. I've realised that as we only use 21% of our energy during the 'night' period, we'd have been much better off not being on Economy 7 all those years. 

Which made me think...every statement I've had has told me that I'm on the cheapest tariff (as this is the energy firms' obligation to companies. Whereas I clearly was not on the cheapest tariff for my usage pattern. 

Does the obligation to tell customers about the cheapest tariff not apply to whether they are (or are not) on Economy 7? 

Also, I notice that a lot of providers online just ask you what meter you have, and if you say Economy 7, they only offer you those tariffs. This seems at odds with my understanding that Ofgem has told them they need to offer flat rate tariffs to E7 meter customers by allowing them to add up the two numbers. 

I wonder how much money Economy 7 customers have lost / are losing. 

molerat

No.  They only have to show you the cheapest for the tariff applicable to your meter type.

Netexporter

Probably a good idea to get a smart meter so you can avail yourself of more competitive tariffs that better suit your usage pattern.

Chris_b2z

Scottish Power have a section in their bill where they show you how much you can save by switching to a different tariff based on your usage over the past year. In my case they pointed out that I would be better off on a single rate tariff rather than E7.

Spoonie_Turtle

I believe this is from traditional Economy 7 with non-smart meters needing a specific metering setup (two meters, one to record each rate) so in the database that's how it was registered.  Still today that's how they're registered in the database, even though for people with smart meters their meter profile should only need to be 'smart'.  Because your meter will be profiled as Economy 7, that's the type of tariff that will come up for your meter automatically and that's the only type of tariff they have to compare to tell you which is cheapest.

It would be good if comparison sites would be functional again, if only for people on traditional multi-rate tariffs to check a) whether a different supplier would be cheaper, and b) whether single rate would be cheaper.  It's ridiculous that they are still dormant.

Chris_b2z

First of all, I'm pretty sure that suppliers can move you onto a single rate tariff without changing your meter. It doesn't need to be smart.

I do have a smart meter. My transition to the standard single rate tariff was painless and completed within a day. However, it does look like my meter is still in dual-rate mode with both the day and off-peak rates set to the same rate. I'm not sure what that means when I start to shop around in the future.

Slinky

I had a right fight trying to get on a single rate tariff with E7 meters, as we had a very similar usage pattern to yourself. We have gas CH and no storage heaters. The E7 meters were a legacy from the previous owners.

We were on a fixed rate single tariff with Outfox the Market, but when the fix ended they stuck us on E7 and wouldn't give us single rate. I moved to EDF as they said they would offer me this, and they did after a lot of messing about and a complaint to the Ombudsman.

We've now got solar so swapped to smart meter on single rate tariff with Octopus. May move to a more TOU tariff when we see how our usage works out.

So my advice is don't go to EDF, they were a complete nightmare to get the single rate sorted, and their 6 monthly billing makes it difficult to keep track of how much you are spending.

Spoonie_Turtle

Chris_b2z said:

First of all, I'm pretty sure that suppliers can move you onto a single rate tariff without changing your meter. It doesn't need to be smart.

I do have a smart meter. My transition to the standard single rate tariff was painless and completed within a day. However, it does look like my meter is still in dual-rate mode with both the day and off-peak rates set to the same rate. I'm not sure what that means when I start to shop around in the future.

They can charge you at the single rate but technically it's still dual-rate, in that they'd still take readings of both rates, just both the rates happen to be the same.

You need to actually have your meter registered as single rate for them to use that as the basis for comparison, per the OP's complaint.  Even with a smart meter, otherwise when you switch they automatically put you onto Economy 7 because that's the registered profile for your meter - and then you have the same problem as the above poster.


Actually I'd forgotten about this until looking back at my messages with Octopus, when we switched to them they put us on dual rate even though our meter was a simple single rate one incapable of registering anything else.  We'd previously been on Economy 10 before having the meter changed, so I don't know what Eon were playing at to not get the database updated properly in the almost a year between changing the meter and us switching.  (Incidentally, for that incorrect tariff the day rate was c.16p/kWh and night rate c.9p!!  I don't have the single rate to hand, but wow what a contrast to current energy prices?)

Gerry1

Chris_b2z said:

First of all, I'm pretty sure that suppliers can move you onto a single rate tariff without changing your meter. It doesn't need to be smart.

I do have a smart meter. My transition to the standard single rate tariff was painless and completed within a day. However, it does look like my meter is still in dual-rate mode with both the day and off-peak rates set to the same rate. I'm not sure what that means when I start to shop around in the future.

Slinky said:

I had a right fight trying to get on a single rate tariff with E7 meters, as we had a very similar usage pattern to yourself. We have gas CH and no storage heaters. The E7 meters were a legacy from the previous owners.

We were on a fixed rate single tariff with Outfox the Market, but when the fix ended they stuck us on E7 and wouldn't give us single rate. I moved to EDF as they said they would offer me this, and they did after a lot of messing about and a complaint to the Ombudsman.

We've now got solar so swapped to smart meter on single rate tariff with Octopus. May move to a more TOU tariff when we see how our usage works out.

So my advice is don't go to EDF, they were a complete nightmare to get the single rate sorted, and their 6 monthly billing makes it difficult to keep track of how much you are spending.

Many suppliers will happily bill an E7 meter at single rate, but some awkward ones won't.  Fuse won't even supply you at all if you have a traditional E7 meter.  Always check before switching.

I'm fairly sure EDF offer monthly billing, (or used to.)  I was with them probably about two years ago and I wouldn't have accepted six-monthly billing.

Just two more examples of dozy Ofgem's failings.  There should be minimum standards to promote effective competition annd minimise unnecessary customer confusion.

Slinky

Gerry1 said:

Chris_b2z said:

First of all, I'm pretty sure that suppliers can move you onto a single rate tariff without changing your meter. It doesn't need to be smart.

I do have a smart meter. My transition to the standard single rate tariff was painless and completed within a day. However, it does look like my meter is still in dual-rate mode with both the day and off-peak rates set to the same rate. I'm not sure what that means when I start to shop around in the future.

Slinky said:

I had a right fight trying to get on a single rate tariff with E7 meters, as we had a very similar usage pattern to yourself. We have gas CH and no storage heaters. The E7 meters were a legacy from the previous owners.

We were on a fixed rate single tariff with Outfox the Market, but when the fix ended they stuck us on E7 and wouldn't give us single rate. I moved to EDF as they said they would offer me this, and they did after a lot of messing about and a complaint to the Ombudsman.

We've now got solar so swapped to smart meter on single rate tariff with Octopus. May move to a more TOU tariff when we see how our usage works out.

So my advice is don't go to EDF, they were a complete nightmare to get the single rate sorted, and their 6 monthly billing makes it difficult to keep track of how much you are spending.

Many suppliers will happily bill an E7 meter at single rate, but some awkward ones won't.  Fuse won't even supply you at all if you have a traditional E7 meter.  Always check before switching.

I'm fairly sure EDF offer monthly billing, (or used to.)  I was with them probably about two years ago and I wouldn't have accepted six-monthly billing.

Just two more examples of dozy Ofgem's failings.  There should be minimum standards to promote effective competition annd minimise unnecessary customer confusion.

If you are on fixed DD, EDF only send you a bill 6 monthly. If you pay a variable amount each month, they will bill you monthly.

dunstonh

Slinky said:

Gerry1 said:

Chris_b2z said:

First of all, I'm pretty sure that suppliers can move you onto a single rate tariff without changing your meter. It doesn't need to be smart.

I do have a smart meter. My transition to the standard single rate tariff was painless and completed within a day. However, it does look like my meter is still in dual-rate mode with both the day and off-peak rates set to the same rate. I'm not sure what that means when I start to shop around in the future.

Slinky said:

I had a right fight trying to get on a single rate tariff with E7 meters, as we had a very similar usage pattern to yourself. We have gas CH and no storage heaters. The E7 meters were a legacy from the previous owners.

We were on a fixed rate single tariff with Outfox the Market, but when the fix ended they stuck us on E7 and wouldn't give us single rate. I moved to EDF as they said they would offer me this, and they did after a lot of messing about and a complaint to the Ombudsman.

We've now got solar so swapped to smart meter on single rate tariff with Octopus. May move to a more TOU tariff when we see how our usage works out.

So my advice is don't go to EDF, they were a complete nightmare to get the single rate sorted, and their 6 monthly billing makes it difficult to keep track of how much you are spending.

Many suppliers will happily bill an E7 meter at single rate, but some awkward ones won't.  Fuse won't even supply you at all if you have a traditional E7 meter.  Always check before switching.

I'm fairly sure EDF offer monthly billing, (or used to.)  I was with them probably about two years ago and I wouldn't have accepted six-monthly billing.

Just two more examples of dozy Ofgem's failings.  There should be minimum standards to promote effective competition annd minimise unnecessary customer confusion.

If you are on fixed DD, EDF only send you a bill 6 monthly. If you pay a variable amount each month, they will bill you monthly.

pre-Kraken that is the case.   It looks like EDF post Kraken is moving to monthly but too early to tell.