Pension credit, care home, probate problem!

Percymagpiper

Hi everyone,

Firstly thank you to all the helpful posts I've read over the last few months as I progressed in my probate journey. Have a bit of an issue to sort so thought I would finally join and ask for advice.

My mum passed away last year after a long illness, and had been in temporary residential care for around 18 months. This care was never made permanent, I think due to inefficiencies in the social care system. We're in Wales. She was on pension credit, and had been since she reached pension age. The issue was, she had suspected dementia as well as physical illness so I applied for deputyship through the court of protection so I could legally access her bank account and pay her contribution to her care from her pension. I signed an agreement with the local authority that they would pay until the deputyship came through.

Fast forward, the dementia and lack of capacity report was not completed, delay after delay. The CoP finally agreed my deputyship just after she passed away,  on a temporary basis as the report had still not been done.

Probate applied for, took 8 months but finally came through. I paid back the significant care bill owed to the LA. My mum had built up over £15000 in her account as no money had been spent all the time in care.

I now get the DWP letter which from reading here I was expecting. Most of the probate was mum's house, and the rest is the bank account with the build up of money owed to to LA. Shall I write a letter back to them telling them the whole story? Is it going to take ages, the house is for sale now and they say not to distribute estate  until sorted. It was not her fault the money built up, I could not access her account and had no idea, the money was owed to the LA and has been paid back.

Thank you for reaching the end and I'd be grateful of advice

Beth

Brie

Sorry for your loss.  It's a bit of a twist of the knife if you feel like you're getting over something and then someone pops a letter in the post.  

So DWP is making demands?  For pension credits to be paid back?  I would in the first instance give them a shortened version in that while there may have been money in the account it was owed to LA so should not be counted as savings.  I've heard they are less than forgiving of these things but it's worth a shot.

Percymagpiper

Thanks,

The letter it is about benefits and they have just sent a form to complete. I've filled it in with details of the assets - only the house and the one bank account and as it was over £10,000 I assume I'll get a letter asking for bank statements next so they can calculate how much her 'savings' were over the limit and for how long. The fact that they were paid to the LA will not be obvious and the money is now gone as they were paid back as soon as I had probate and could access the account legally.

Should I write a letter at that stage about the build up or should I do it now? I'm worried they'll demand back money I don't have until the house sells. It would be great if our government had joined up their departments as each one I have dealt with seem to have no idea about the others!

Thanks for helping 😃

msb1234

I’m not I’m not sure if it’s different in Wales, I’m in England. Your situation is similar to that of my stepfather but he’s still alive. When he went into care, he had a financial assessment completed and his house wasn’t included as he only owned a % of it which wasn’t deemed of any value. I received his monthly care home statement and I also received his State Pension so that I could pay towards his fees. His pension credit was stopped. Now I have Deputyship I am able to pay off the balance and his full fees each month. 

The difficulty sounds like your mum would have had a financial assessment based on her income, including pension credits, and that’s what you’ve paid off. If you have to repay the pension credit, then you (her estate) should have a retrospective financial assessment carried out and you be reimbursed off the council for an overpayment of her fees.

Warslet

I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your mum.  My mum passed away 4 years ago and I recall receiving a form to complete from the DWP which had to total the same as the HMRC calculation checking if inheritance was due. I also recall reading her annual benefit letter which explained about savings held and if needed to keep them informed. I was fairly certain she didn’t owe anything but not 100% certain. She was in receipt of various benefits and careful with her money. I received a reply stating no clawback. Although her savings had increased DWP were happy the accounts she declared to them had been notified correctly. I would complete the form and appeal to them if you need to after receiving a response. 

BooJewels

It sounds like a complicated chicken and egg situation as @msb1234 described.  The build up was only because you weren't able to pay what was owed and that amount was determined by being in receipt of PC in the first instance.

What exactly does the DWP letter ask - is it a standard letter asking for details of assets, with a form to list them and telling you not to distribute the estate until they've looked at it and it may take some time?  I got that one and it arrived on the very day the house sale was supposed to complete and I'd already signed bank docs and paid the fees to have the house proceeds distributed directly to the major beneficiaries, so I did have a little panic.  The house sale ended up delayed a couple of days, so I rang them at 08:00am next morning and went through some numbers over the phone and they were able to calculate it there and then and determine that nothing was actually due back.  I got a letter confirming it a few days later.

So it might well be worth ringing and explaining the situation - arm yourself with some numbers first and get yourself organised with the facts in front of you etc.  You can hold up to £10,000 in savings before it affects your PC and after that point, each £500 in savings is counted as £1 per week income.  So if she had a maximum of £15,000 in savings, that would be calculated as £10 per week in income, so as PC is a top up benefit, that's the most she would have been overpaid for the period she had it - as a worst case scenario - it wouldn't be everything she'd received.

Do you have statements from the LA with the amount owed etc.?  When there was an issue with my Dad's fees and funding a few years ago and I was going to end up potentially owing them a chunk back if he didn't secure the funding, they were quite heavy handed in reminding me of the debt and I got a bill sent every week.

Alphatauri

Definitely write to DWP and put in a time line, if you can bullet point it to keep it factual and to the point.  I would also add a table showing income, increase in savings and increase in debt due to LA ( do this in red or colour to show its a debt) so it is blindingly obvious that had you got the deputyship earlier the savings would not have ever gone over £10,000. 

Mawm

Warslet said:

I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your mum.  My mum passed away 4 years ago and I recall receiving a form to complete from the DWP which had to total the same as the HMRC calculation checking if inheritance was due. I also recall reading her annual benefit letter which explained about savings held and if needed to keep them informed. I was fairly certain she didn’t owe anything but not 100% certain. She was in receipt of various benefits and careful with her money. I received a reply stating no clawback. Although her savings had increased DWP were happy the accounts she declared to them had been notified correctly. I would complete the form and appeal to them if you need to after receiving a response. 

Sorry to jump on but do you remember how long it took to sort this with the dwp? I'm in a similar situation and sent all relevant documents off to the dwp 4 weeks ago. 

SevenOfNine

My aunt had £21k in the bank when she died. DWP asked for financial info for a certain date 7 years earlier when she'd made the benefit claim.

So I got the date as far back as Barclays had (6years). DWP saw she'd been entitled to claim even at that point a year after she'd been receiving money, (embarrassingly it was the benefit payments she'd been sweeping off into savings), DWP case closed.

Just give exactly what they've asked for, sell house, pay debts but don't distribute 'inheritance' until DWP instruct you further. They've no interest in reasons or excuses, just financial facts & it will move quicker that way.I

My condolences.

Warslet

Mawm said:

Warslet said:

I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your mum.  My mum passed away 4 years ago and I recall receiving a form to complete from the DWP which had to total the same as the HMRC calculation checking if inheritance was due. I also recall reading her annual benefit letter which explained about savings held and if needed to keep them informed. I was fairly certain she didn’t owe anything but not 100% certain. She was in receipt of various benefits and careful with her money. I received a reply stating no clawback. Although her savings had increased DWP were happy the accounts she declared to them had been notified correctly. I would complete the form and appeal to them if you need to after receiving a response. 

Sorry to jump on but do you remember how long it took to sort this with the dwp? I'm in a similar situation and sent all relevant documents off to the dwp 4 weeks ago. 

I received a reply from DWP 5 weeks after sending the completed form.That was in 2019. You should hear soon!  

Mawm

Warslet said:

Mawm said:

Warslet said:

I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your mum.  My mum passed away 4 years ago and I recall receiving a form to complete from the DWP which had to total the same as the HMRC calculation checking if inheritance was due. I also recall reading her annual benefit letter which explained about savings held and if needed to keep them informed. I was fairly certain she didn’t owe anything but not 100% certain. She was in receipt of various benefits and careful with her money. I received a reply stating no clawback. Although her savings had increased DWP were happy the accounts she declared to them had been notified correctly. I would complete the form and appeal to them if you need to after receiving a response. 

Sorry to jump on but do you remember how long it took to sort this with the dwp? I'm in a similar situation and sent all relevant documents off to the dwp 4 weeks ago. 

I received a reply from DWP 5 weeks after sending the completed form.That was in 2019. You should hear soon!  

Thank you, fingers crossed 🤞