Does "Fast charging" Android devices damage them?

[Deleted User]

cerebus said:

[Deleted User] said:

cerebus said:

I always wonder why they don't simply make the batteries only chargeable to 80% of the batteries true capacity but shows 100% charged on the indicator 

Or would this stop making them money as batteries wouldn't need to be changed so often ?

That would be a step backward, taking away consumer choice. Charging to 100% isn't all bad, it just trades off some longevity for higher capacity and I'd rather have the choice.

Imagine being stuck in an emergency with 1% battery left knowing there could have been 21% left if the manufacturer hadn't restricted charging to 80%.

Given the choice, I always charge to 100%, my phone gets hammered during the day and I need every last drop of charge so I always leave the house at 100% although I do make use of optimised charging which stops at 80% until about an hour before I get up in the morning.

Edit: Using the bottom 0-20% is equally stressful for the battery as charging through 80-100% so if you take it off one end and use it at the other, it doesn't really help.

How do you know you're using all the batteries full capacity? After all you can only go off what the manufacturer is telling you how much capacity the particular battery has or rather what a 100% charge capacity is , it could be capable of holding more

I simply charge mine as it needs it and to 100% too my phone is now roughly 5 years old and the battery has lost charge but still holds a decent one and when it does give up I will simply change it as the phone is still good and its cheaper than replacing the phone , to me that's more MSE  

Just checked and my battery health is currently at 80% so I still remain to be convinced that only charging to 80% is beneficial 

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

Credible source of data about lithium batteries that will answer all your questions.  

As for your question about manufacturers not declaring 100% capacity- several answers including:

1. Manufacturers actually tend to overstate the capacity by measuring during optimal conditions, typically you won’t achieve the max rated capacity due to many factors. 

2. Manufacturers generally sell based on battery capacity not lifespan metrics eg phone X will last 18 hours on a full charge rather than saying you will get 1000 full charges so the incentive is to fully charge to sell the marketing. 

2. The only way you can charge to 80% is by knowing what 100% charge capacity is. Only way to discover 100% charge capacity is to charge to 100% which is defined as 4.2v 

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-602-how-does-a-battery-fuel-gauge-work

So if you were to limit the battery to 80% charge, you need to charge to 100% occasionally to know what 80% is. 

cerebus

[Deleted User] said:

cerebus said:

[Deleted User] said:

cerebus said:

I always wonder why they don't simply make the batteries only chargeable to 80% of the batteries true capacity but shows 100% charged on the indicator 

Or would this stop making them money as batteries wouldn't need to be changed so often ?

That would be a step backward, taking away consumer choice. Charging to 100% isn't all bad, it just trades off some longevity for higher capacity and I'd rather have the choice.

Imagine being stuck in an emergency with 1% battery left knowing there could have been 21% left if the manufacturer hadn't restricted charging to 80%.

Given the choice, I always charge to 100%, my phone gets hammered during the day and I need every last drop of charge so I always leave the house at 100% although I do make use of optimised charging which stops at 80% until about an hour before I get up in the morning.

Edit: Using the bottom 0-20% is equally stressful for the battery as charging through 80-100% so if you take it off one end and use it at the other, it doesn't really help.

How do you know you're using all the batteries full capacity? After all you can only go off what the manufacturer is telling you how much capacity the particular battery has or rather what a 100% charge capacity is , it could be capable of holding more

I simply charge mine as it needs it and to 100% too my phone is now roughly 5 years old and the battery has lost charge but still holds a decent one and when it does give up I will simply change it as the phone is still good and its cheaper than replacing the phone , to me that's more MSE  

Just checked and my battery health is currently at 80% so I still remain to be convinced that only charging to 80% is beneficial 

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

Credible source of data about lithium batteries that will answer all your questions.  

As for your question about manufacturers not declaring 100% capacity- several answers including:

1. Manufacturers actually tend to overstate the capacity by measuring during optimal conditions, typically you won’t achieve the max rated capacity due to many factors. 

2. Manufacturers generally sell based on battery capacity not lifespan metrics eg phone X will last 18 hours on a full charge rather than saying you will get 1000 full charges so the incentive is to fully charge to sell the marketing. 

2. The only way you can charge to 80% is by knowing what 100% charge capacity is. Only way to discover 100% charge capacity is to charge to 100% which is defined as 4.2v 

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-602-how-does-a-battery-fuel-gauge-work

So if you were to limit the battery to 80% charge, you need to charge to 100% occasionally to know what 80% is. 

Ah so what you mean by no 1 is by charging to 100% you're not fully charging the battery anyway because manufacturers overstate the max capacity, good to know

And by the second 2 you mean that if you only charge the battery to 80% then that might not be actually be 80% could be more/less and there's no way for the average user to find out if they are actually fully charging the battery anyway - good to know

Interesting stuff 

[Deleted User]

cerebus said:

[Deleted User] said:

cerebus said:

[Deleted User] said:

cerebus said:

I always wonder why they don't simply make the batteries only chargeable to 80% of the batteries true capacity but shows 100% charged on the indicator 

Or would this stop making them money as batteries wouldn't need to be changed so often ?

That would be a step backward, taking away consumer choice. Charging to 100% isn't all bad, it just trades off some longevity for higher capacity and I'd rather have the choice.

Imagine being stuck in an emergency with 1% battery left knowing there could have been 21% left if the manufacturer hadn't restricted charging to 80%.

Given the choice, I always charge to 100%, my phone gets hammered during the day and I need every last drop of charge so I always leave the house at 100% although I do make use of optimised charging which stops at 80% until about an hour before I get up in the morning.

Edit: Using the bottom 0-20% is equally stressful for the battery as charging through 80-100% so if you take it off one end and use it at the other, it doesn't really help.

How do you know you're using all the batteries full capacity? After all you can only go off what the manufacturer is telling you how much capacity the particular battery has or rather what a 100% charge capacity is , it could be capable of holding more

I simply charge mine as it needs it and to 100% too my phone is now roughly 5 years old and the battery has lost charge but still holds a decent one and when it does give up I will simply change it as the phone is still good and its cheaper than replacing the phone , to me that's more MSE  

Just checked and my battery health is currently at 80% so I still remain to be convinced that only charging to 80% is beneficial 

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

Credible source of data about lithium batteries that will answer all your questions.  

As for your question about manufacturers not declaring 100% capacity- several answers including:

1. Manufacturers actually tend to overstate the capacity by measuring during optimal conditions, typically you won’t achieve the max rated capacity due to many factors. 

2. Manufacturers generally sell based on battery capacity not lifespan metrics eg phone X will last 18 hours on a full charge rather than saying you will get 1000 full charges so the incentive is to fully charge to sell the marketing. 

2. The only way you can charge to 80% is by knowing what 100% charge capacity is. Only way to discover 100% charge capacity is to charge to 100% which is defined as 4.2v 

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-602-how-does-a-battery-fuel-gauge-work

So if you were to limit the battery to 80% charge, you need to charge to 100% occasionally to know what 80% is. 

Ah so what you mean by no 1 is by charging to 100% you're not fully charging the battery anyway because manufacturers overstate the max capacity, good to know

And by the second 2 you mean that if you only charge the battery to 80% then that might not be actually be 80% could be more/less and there's no way for the average user to find out if they are actually fully charging the battery anyway - good to know

Interesting stuff 

Yes, just to clarify …

What I mean by number 1 is that charging a battery is not like filling a bucket with water where 100% is practically always the same and easily measurable. 

Under optimal conditions 100% will be X level of charge available, but depending on anything from manufacturing tolerances to temperature at the time of charge, the “bucket” might be slightly smaller or larger for any given battery. 

If you read more on that website you will find you can charge a lithium ion battery to over 100% if you desire. 

The 100% mark is a generally agreed principle as to when you should stop charging a lithium ion battery - something like 4.2v and current at about 3% of “C” where C is the capacity of the battery (which varies slightly). 

Literally every time you charge your battery it will be at a slightly different 100%. 

Maybe “overstate” capacity is the wrong phrase, “approximate” would be fair but it is based on optimal conditions that don’t always arise in real life. 

B0bbyEwing

I used to charge mine wirelessley to 100%. After reading about battery charging I now out mine on charge at night via cable and cap out at 85%.

It sees me right for the working day. 

And for 'just in case' - I hard wired a charging cable in to the car plus I keep a charger & cable in my locker at work so there's no concern in me running out of juice. I generally get home about 30-40%.