Direct Debit Question

AELH

I was wondering if anyone can provide some insight?
I have had an issue with a direct debit with my daughters swimming lesson and have sent the below email to citizens advice. But was wondering if anyone else has had a similar issue and what the outcome has been. 

I am writing to enquire about an issue regarding the Direct Debit Guarantee and an outstanding balance requested by Sandwell Leisure Trust.

In July 2021, I set up a Direct Debit instruction for my two daughters' weekly swimming lessons with Sandwell Leisure Trust. I have regularly paid the debits from my account labelled as Sandwell Leisure Trust, and accepted any price increases over the past 2+ years.

Recently, after changing their system, Sandwell Leisure Trust informed me that they have been withdrawing incorrect amounts for over 2 years. They are now requesting that I pay an outstanding balance of over £600 to make up this difference.

My understanding is that under the Direct Debit Guarantee, organisations are responsible for ensuring they collect the accurate agreed upon amounts. Could you please clarify whose responsibility it is to guarantee correct Direct Debit amounts in a situation like this?

Additionally, is it permissible for an organisation to back-charge a customer for multiple years of incorrect Direct Debit withdrawals that resulted from their own administrative error?

I would appreciate your insights on this matter. Please let me know if you require any additional information. I look forward to your reply.

Thank you for your time.

eskbanker

I'm not sure that the Direct Debit Guarantee will help you here - if the company can demonstrate that it's collected an insufficient amount from you then chances are they'll be entitled to recover the shortfall, regardless of the method of payment, i.e. even if they're prevented from claiming extra by DD, that wouldn't mean that they're forced to write off the debt, and they could pursue you to pay it by other means.

To what extent do the Ts & Cs of your agreement address this issue?

AELH

I'm not sure I've asked for a copy of their T&C's but I'm still waiting for their response.

AELH

I've found their T&C's online nothing appears to cover the above www. slt- leisure.co.uk /swimschool-direct-debit-terms-and-conditions/ 

MattMattMattUK

AELH said:

I've found their T&C's online nothing appears to cover the above www. slt- leisure.co.uk /swimschool-direct-debit-terms-and-conditions/ 

It likely does not need to though, the amount is owed, in law it would be a debt that needs to be paid, the fact that they have under collected a Direct Debit has no impact on that. 

user1977

The Direct Debit Guarantee is that your bank will refund you any debits which you claim shouldn't have been made from your account - it has no effect on whatever contractual arrangements there might be between you and the payee.

born_again

If they give the required notification of the payment due then you have no claim under the DD Guarantee.

Direct Debit Guarantee

• The Guarantee is offered by all banks and building societies that accept instructions to pay Direct Debits
• If there are any changes to the amount, date or frequency of your Direct Debit the organisation will notify you (normally 10 working days) in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. If you request the organisation to collect a payment, confirmation of the amount and date will be given to you at the time of the request
• If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit, by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society
• If you receive a refund you are not entitled to, you must pay it back when the organisation asks you to
• You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by simply contacting your bank or building society. Written confirmation may be required. Please also notify the organisation.

AELH

born_again said:

If they give the required notification of the payment due then you have no claim under the DD Guarantee.

Direct Debit Guarantee

• The Guarantee is offered by all banks and building societies that accept instructions to pay Direct Debits
• If there are any changes to the amount, date or frequency of your Direct Debit the organisation will notify you (normally 10 working days) in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. If you request the organisation to collect a payment, confirmation of the amount and date will be given to you at the time of the request
• If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit, by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society
• If you receive a refund you are not entitled to, you must pay it back when the organisation asks you to
• You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by simply contacting your bank or building society. Written confirmation may be required. Please also notify the organisation.

Thanks. They have communicated with me and I have seen my DD increase over the last 2 years however, they have only taken half the amount I haven't refused to pay over the past 2 years it's their system error. I have tried to engage with them but are replying through a shared inbox so difficult to talk to a human.

MorningcoffeeIV

There's no need to talk to them, unless you're going to struggle to pay the arrears in full. 

If that's the case, pay what you can and then agree a repayment plan with them.

Brie

I agree that this has nothing to do with a DD guarantee but it does have a lot to do with whatever contract was set up between you and the company to pay for the lessons.

If the company said lessons cost £10 a week in year one and £15 a week in year two and you paid those amounts in full by DD then that's fine.  If they then turned around and said they should have stated it was £10 a lesson and as your daughter had 2 lessons a week you had only paid half what was owed then I'd say you have a reason to go back to them and say you won't pay.  This is on the basis that you agreed to £10 a week and not £10 a lesson.  A company cannot go back in time and change it's prices even if there was an error made on their part.  Well - they can try and if you say no then they need to accept that.

If however the company said the cost was £10 a lesson and your daughter had 2 lessons a week and you only paid £10 a week then you should have noticed you were paying half the agreed amount.  In that case the company does have the right to request more money from you even though they made an error in setting up the DD payments.  If you are unhappy about paying the full amount owed you might try to go back and say you won't pay the full amount but will pay X in full and final settlement and see what they are willing to agree.  

AELH

Thanks all I have tried to engage with the company and offered to meet with them face to face or virtually to discuss and resolve the issue. They have now said they have passed the debt to a debt collection company as I haven’t paid and I will have to engage with them I was only notified of the debt last Friday. I find this very aggressive by them and not necessary as I’ve tried to engage with them. 

Can they do this so quickly?
I think I might need to get legal advice can anyone recommend who to contact?