Fire door repairs

UnsureTenant

I’m a leaseholder and our management company have informed all 6 leaseholders that the entrance door to each flat require intumescent strips fitting. It’s a 3 storey building with 6 flats total. The doors are all fire doors from the building construction in the 2000s, but they don’t have intumescent strips fitted.

I’ve had a few quotes but none of the contractors can actually re-certify the door, which seems like a red flag. I don’t want to pay 100s for work which is not satisfactory, but the management company haven’t provided much guidance and I’m not sure the best course of action.

Has anyone got any experience or advice on this situation?

grumbler

UnsureTenant said:

I don’t want to pay 100s for work 

I'm no expert, but I had a brief look and I see external and internal fire doors available for less than £200.
Also, any chance the strip can be added to the door frame instead?

Section62

UnsureTenant said:

I’ve had a few quotes but none of the contractors can actually re-certify the door, which seems like a red flag.

To be effective it is vital that the door, door frame and the way the frame is installed in the opening all comply with guidance and regulations.

Sadly, as wasteful as it is, the norm is to see the frame being ripped out along with the old door, and an entirely new door/frame installed in its place.

Having an existing door modified so it complies is really a specialist job.... so the average contractor* won't want to know. (the competent ones, not the cowboys.)

john.h

If they only want intumescent strips fitted it’s a very easy job if that’s all they want doing. If everything else is okay on the door fitting etc.  A hours work per door. 

Alderbank

UnsureTenant said:

I’m a leaseholder and our management company have informed all 6 leaseholders that the entrance door to each flat require intumescent strips fitting. It’s a 3 storey building with 6 flats total. The doors are all fire doors from the building construction in the 2000s, but they don’t have intumescent strips fitted.

I’ve had a few quotes but none of the contractors can actually re-certify the door, which seems like a red flag. I don’t want to pay 100s for work which is not satisfactory, but the management company haven’t provided much guidance and I’m not sure the best course of action.

Has anyone got any experience or advice on this situation?

Is re-certifying the door your own idea or is it something the management company have suggested?

I suppose you could re-certify a fire door but it would not be much use as any kind of door, let alone a fire door, afterwards.
The test is to set it into a special wall in a testing laboratory, start a calibrated fire behind it, and measure the time until it is destroyed.
in practice the test is done on samples from the manufacturer who are then permitted to apply the certification to identically made products. It is carried out on two samples, one opening in and one opening out.

Recent changes to the fire safety regulations mean that since January fire risk assessors must assess the intumescent strips/smoke seals of fire doors, hence this new request from your management company. The assessor should asses them using their hands and eyes, not just rely on original certification. The seals don't last forever.

Do the door frames have grooves cut for seals? If so, and the gap between door and frame is 2-4mm round top and sides, they can be brought up to standard quite easily and economically. If there are no grooves then routing them properly is a skilled and expensive job and as said above the most realistic solution will probably be a new combined door set.

john.h

Alderbank said:

UnsureTenant said:

I’m a leaseholder and our management company have informed all 6 leaseholders that the entrance door to each flat require intumescent strips fitting. It’s a 3 storey building with 6 flats total. The doors are all fire doors from the building construction in the 2000s, but they don’t have intumescent strips fitted.

I’ve had a few quotes but none of the contractors can actually re-certify the door, which seems like a red flag. I don’t want to pay 100s for work which is not satisfactory, but the management company haven’t provided much guidance and I’m not sure the best course of action.

Has anyone got any experience or advice on this situation?

Is re-certifying the door your own idea or is it something the management company have suggested?

I suppose you could re-certify a fire door but it would not be much use as any kind of door, let alone a fire door, afterwards.
The test is to set it into a special wall in a testing laboratory, start a calibrated fire behind it, and measure the time until it is destroyed.
in practice the test is done on samples from the manufacturer who are then permitted to apply the certification to identically made products. It is carried out on two samples, one opening in and one opening out.

Recent changes to the fire safety regulations mean that since January fire risk assessors must assess the intumescent strips/smoke seals of fire doors, hence this new request from your management company. The assessor should asses them using their hands and eyes, not just rely on original certification. The seals don't last forever.

Do the door frames have grooves cut for seals? If so, and the gap between door and frame is 2-4mm round top and sides, they can be brought up to standard quite easily and economically. If there are no grooves then routing them properly is a skilled and expensive job and as said above the most realistic solution will probably be a new combined door set.

You just need to router the grooves in to the door. A simple job with a 1/4 router and the correct cutter. 

Section62

john.h said:

Alderbank said:

UnsureTenant said:

I’m a leaseholder and our management company have informed all 6 leaseholders that the entrance door to each flat require intumescent strips fitting. It’s a 3 storey building with 6 flats total. The doors are all fire doors from the building construction in the 2000s, but they don’t have intumescent strips fitted.

I’ve had a few quotes but none of the contractors can actually re-certify the door, which seems like a red flag. I don’t want to pay 100s for work which is not satisfactory, but the management company haven’t provided much guidance and I’m not sure the best course of action.

Has anyone got any experience or advice on this situation?

Is re-certifying the door your own idea or is it something the management company have suggested?

I suppose you could re-certify a fire door but it would not be much use as any kind of door, let alone a fire door, afterwards.
The test is to set it into a special wall in a testing laboratory, start a calibrated fire behind it, and measure the time until it is destroyed.
in practice the test is done on samples from the manufacturer who are then permitted to apply the certification to identically made products. It is carried out on two samples, one opening in and one opening out.

Recent changes to the fire safety regulations mean that since January fire risk assessors must assess the intumescent strips/smoke seals of fire doors, hence this new request from your management company. The assessor should asses them using their hands and eyes, not just rely on original certification. The seals don't last forever.

Do the door frames have grooves cut for seals? If so, and the gap between door and frame is 2-4mm round top and sides, they can be brought up to standard quite easily and economically. If there are no grooves then routing them properly is a skilled and expensive job and as said above the most realistic solution will probably be a new combined door set.

You just need to router the grooves in to the door. A simple job with a 1/4 router and the correct cutter. 

The problem isn't the physical work to fit the strips... it is providing the assurance the modified door set is compliant with the regs.

Post-Grenfell people with fire-stafety responsibility are significantly more concerned about covering themselves in case anything goes wrong.

Alderbank

john.h said:

Alderbank said:

UnsureTenant said:

I’m a leaseholder and our management company have informed all 6 leaseholders that the entrance door to each flat require intumescent strips fitting. It’s a 3 storey building with 6 flats total. The doors are all fire doors from the building construction in the 2000s, but they don’t have intumescent strips fitted.

I’ve had a few quotes but none of the contractors can actually re-certify the door, which seems like a red flag. I don’t want to pay 100s for work which is not satisfactory, but the management company haven’t provided much guidance and I’m not sure the best course of action.

Has anyone got any experience or advice on this situation?

Is re-certifying the door your own idea or is it something the management company have suggested?

I suppose you could re-certify a fire door but it would not be much use as any kind of door, let alone a fire door, afterwards.
The test is to set it into a special wall in a testing laboratory, start a calibrated fire behind it, and measure the time until it is destroyed.
in practice the test is done on samples from the manufacturer who are then permitted to apply the certification to identically made products. It is carried out on two samples, one opening in and one opening out.

Recent changes to the fire safety regulations mean that since January fire risk assessors must assess the intumescent strips/smoke seals of fire doors, hence this new request from your management company. The assessor should asses them using their hands and eyes, not just rely on original certification. The seals don't last forever.

Do the door frames have grooves cut for seals? If so, and the gap between door and frame is 2-4mm round top and sides, they can be brought up to standard quite easily and economically. If there are no grooves then routing them properly is a skilled and expensive job and as said above the most realistic solution will probably be a new combined door set.

You just need to router the grooves in to the door. A simple job with a 1/4 router and the correct cutter. 

You might think so. But then you haven't seen some of the jobs that I have seen done by LA contractors in blocks of Council flats!

Jonboy_1984

Had to replace an internal fire door for work, it was a £1000 all in by proper contractor, and we had to wait quite a long time for them to be available(as they had a huge amount of work available to them to pick and choose).