Wholesale energy down up to 85%; Retail energy down 10-15%?

matt_drummer

TheElectricCow said:

goldConsidered said:

This is a massive scandal.

Over the last year wholesale gas prices have plummeted 72%; wholesale electricity by 85%!

Why are consumer groups not saying a word about this massive scandal that is destroying our economy and society?

Have you tried buying your next year’s worth of energy at these cheap wholesale prices then?

Please do let us know how that goes, if all works as you say I think you’d be on to a pretty big money saver here!

What they could do is buy a lot more than they need and then sell it to other people, maybe a few million other people and make £billions!

[Deleted User]

I think that the OP needs to make an urgent call to Cornwall Insights as they also seem to be somewhat confused about future prices:

https://www.cornwall-insight.com/predictions-and-insights-into-the-default-tariff-cap/

born_again

“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

As to Statistics. We all know they can be made to read how you want them to be.

Lets face it, even ML is not screaming about this so called massive scandal. 🤷‍♀️


So what about the cost of a barrel of oil & the cost of fuel @ the pumps as the next massive scandal.

Netexporter

[Deleted User] said:

I think that the OP needs to make an urgent call to Cornwall Insights as they also seem to be somewhat confused about future prices:

https://www.cornwall-insight.com/predictions-and-insights-into-the-default-tariff-cap/

That's interesting. I didn't know they'd recalculated the average consumption figures.

OBVIOUSLY A PLOT TO HIDE TO TRUE EXTENT OF THE ENERGY PRICE CONSPIRACY!

TheElectricCow

matt_drummer said:

TheElectricCow said:

goldConsidered said:

This is a massive scandal.

Over the last year wholesale gas prices have plummeted 72%; wholesale electricity by 85%!

Why are consumer groups not saying a word about this massive scandal that is destroying our economy and society?

Have you tried buying your next year’s worth of energy at these cheap wholesale prices then?

Please do let us know how that goes, if all works as you say I think you’d be on to a pretty big money saver here!

What they could do is buy a lot more than they need and then sell it to other people, maybe a few million other people and make £billions!

Hang on, now here's an idea - What if they tried to predict how much energy these other people would consume and then bulk-purchased enough to meet that demand well in advance of the energy actually being used. There'd be some risk involved, but at least that way they'd know their prices could stay relatively stable over a set period of time and they'd be protected from having to buy this huge amount of energy at whatever happens to be the going rate if things go south.

If only the energy companies had thought of this! They could make even more money than they are now by covering up all their HUGE scandals and secret plots to take over the world.

matt_drummer

TheElectricCow said:

If only the energy companies had thought of this! They could make even more money than they are now by covering up all their HUGE scandals and secret plots to take over the world.

Unless the evil OFGEM comes along and restricts what you make!

Or maybe that is just a lie and they are taking a massive cut?

Its scandalous!

Qyburn

QrizB said:

goldConsidered said:

Matt_drummer - price cap is not what consumers end up paying.

The price cap is, quite literally, what consumers end up paying.

He's right in a way, in this respect. From October 2022 consumers were paying the price cap rate less the EPG subsidy. Just looking at electricity the Government subsidy covered around 35% of the unit rate October to December, and just over 50% from January to March.

So as prices dropped the Government subsidy fell away. The real end user unit price today is less than half that in January.

Phossy

Regarging your unsubstantiated claim that "Retail energy down 10-15%?", the October 2022 Ofgem price cap for electricity was ~46p/kWh. The October 2023 price is ~27p/kWh. That's a fall of 41%.

And for gas, October 2022 was ~14.8p/kWh while Octobr 2023 is ~6.9p/kWh. That's a fall of 53%.

For what it is worth, this is the evolution of my Dual Fuel tariffs since the 2021. I haven't seen the huge drop reported here, but then again I didn't see prices at the high levels quoted in the first place. 

matt_drummer

Phossy said:

Regarging your unsubstantiated claim that "Retail energy down 10-15%?", the October 2022 Ofgem price cap for electricity was ~46p/kWh. The October 2023 price is ~27p/kWh. That's a fall of 41%.

And for gas, October 2022 was ~14.8p/kWh while Octobr 2023 is ~6.9p/kWh. That's a fall of 53%.

For what it is worth, this is the evolution of my Dual Fuel tariffs since the 2021. I haven't seen the huge drop reported here, but then again I didn't see prices at the high levels quoted in the first place. 

That is because those are not your actual prices.

Those are the prices you paid after the government paid part of them, a large part of them.

The energy price guarantee has hidden the real cost and as a consequence it is also hiding the real fall in prices over the last nine months, prices have halved.

Scot_39

goldConsidered said:

This is a massive scandal.

Over the last year wholesale gas prices have plummeted 72%; wholesale electricity by 85%!

Why are consumer groups not saying a word about this massive scandal that is destroying our economy and society?

Using the govts EPG Tables - and just the North West region and Direct Debit payment as top of the govt tables -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/energy-price-guarantee-regional-rates/energy-price-guarantee-regional-rates-january-to-march-2023

And applied EPG discounts to get those prices

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/energy-bills-support/energy-price-guarantee-up-until-30-june-2023

From Jan to Mar 2023 - normal domestic consumers were paying

31.74+VAT / kWh for single electric - after the deduction of 31.8p+VAT - EPG discount - 66.72p inc VAT effective

9.84+VAT / kWh gas - after the deduction of 6.4p ex VAT EPG discount - 17.052p inc VAT effective

And thats with Ofgem's 3 monthly update smoothing impact - and based on the average wholesale over several weeks in the previous window - for future supply - not day spot rates.

From Sunday (Oct 1st) - based on the Oct cap pay

27.27p / kWh for electric  - a 59.1% drop cf Jan-Mar 66.7p Ofgem pricing pre EPG discount

                              (or post EPG - 18.2%)

6.9p / kWh for gas - a 59.5% drop cf Jan-Mar 17.05p Ofgem pricing pre EPG discount

                              (or post EPG - 33.2 %)

Near enough 60% is not 10-15%.

Nor is it a true reflection of peak high to potential trough low - due to as above - Ofgem price window smoothing.

If you want to avoid that smoothing - and secured fixed pricing for 3 months at a time - and wish to expose yourself to the peaks and troughs of wholesale pricing on a daily basis - feel free to consider Octopus Tracker.

If you want to avoid that smoothing - and secured fixed pricing for 3 months at a time - and wish to expose yourself to the half hour peaks and troughs of the wholesale market - feel free to consider Octopus Agile.