Wanting to cap gas supply

QrizB

35har1old said:

For a heat pump to work effectively the house needs to be highly insulated 

No more true for a heat pump than for a gas boiler, a storage heater or an open fire.

bristolleedsfan

British Gas also offer free gas meter removal. After a year the grid company are legally required to remove the pipe for safety, for free, if you request for it to be removed though they will charge for it.

Mobtr

Ectophile said:

There's an important rule in the Gas Act that you need to know.

You become a deemed customer of the current gas supplier the moment you "take a supply" of gas.  See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/schedule/2B section 8. "Where a gas supplier supplies gas to a consumer otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the consumer for the supply of gas as from the time".

If you never intend to use any gas at all, then while you are reading the meters after moving in, turn off the big valve next to the meter.  Make sure that you tell the gas supplier that you will not be using any gas.  Do not agree to any contract.

They then have no right to bill you standing charges, as you are not their customer.

This is not true. There will still be an account regardless of whether any gas is used or not. It will be on a deemed contract and standing charge will still apply. As the owner/occupier of the property you are liable for the cost. 

pseudodox

I live in a block of 4 houses and a few years back we collectively had the block re-roofed.  Economies of scale and no awkward joins or different tiles.  All the houses were built in 1970s with a gas fire in the sitting room and a flue up a cavity behind the bedroom above and through the loft to a gas vent in the roof.  This flue where visible in the loft (asbestos cement) and roof vent no longer complied with building regs governing the roof replacement so had to be replaced with metal flues.  Although I was the only house that actually used the gas fire (2 were just now decorative alcoves) we were advised to get all flues and vents replaced so that future owners of the houses would still have the option of a gas fire.  The cost of doing this whilst the roof was being done was peanuts compared to the projected cost of future reinstatement & possible affect on house value.  The old flues had to be removed even if not being replaced.

Last winter I ran my C/H a couple of hours a day but then I was lovely and cosy with my old fashioned radiant gas fire, which would burn on low for hours just heating the one room where I was spending most time.  And the bedroom above benefitted from the chill being taken off by a slightly warm wall, plus the loft gets a little residual heat also. I certainly would not buy a house without the option for gas, nor would I ever devalue a property by taking out such an option.

doodling

Hi,

Mobtr said:

Ectophile said:

There's an important rule in the Gas Act that you need to know.

You become a deemed customer of the current gas supplier the moment you "take a supply" of gas.  See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/schedule/2B section 8. "Where a gas supplier supplies gas to a consumer otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the consumer for the supply of gas as from the time".

If you never intend to use any gas at all, then while you are reading the meters after moving in, turn off the big valve next to the meter.  Make sure that you tell the gas supplier that you will not be using any gas.  Do not agree to any contract.

They then have no right to bill you standing charges, as you are not their customer.

This is not true. There will still be an account regardless of whether any gas is used or not. It will be on a deemed contract and standing charge will still apply. As the owner/occupier of the property you are liable for the cost. 

Please explain.  My understanding was that the customer was deemed to have an account when they used gas.  If they never use gas then what is the basis for deeming them to have an account?  Please refer to the relevant legislation in your explanation as my interpretation of the legislation I have read matches what I have written.

The issue might of course be that in this time of dual fuel tariffs (and hence a supplier supplying both at  property) then just setting up an electricity account if the supplier also supplies gas at the property might be logistically challenging.

Mobtr

doodling said:

Hi,

Mobtr said:

Ectophile said:

There's an important rule in the Gas Act that you need to know.

You become a deemed customer of the current gas supplier the moment you "take a supply" of gas.  See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/schedule/2B section 8. "Where a gas supplier supplies gas to a consumer otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the consumer for the supply of gas as from the time".

If you never intend to use any gas at all, then while you are reading the meters after moving in, turn off the big valve next to the meter.  Make sure that you tell the gas supplier that you will not be using any gas.  Do not agree to any contract.

They then have no right to bill you standing charges, as you are not their customer.

This is not true. There will still be an account regardless of whether any gas is used or not. It will be on a deemed contract and standing charge will still apply. As the owner/occupier of the property you are liable for the cost. 

Please explain.  My understanding was that the customer was deemed to have an account when they used gas.  If they never use gas then what is the basis for deeming them to have an account?  Please refer to the relevant legislation in your explanation as my interpretation of the legislation I have read matches what I have written.

The issue might of course be that in this time of dual fuel tariffs (and hence a supplier supplying both at  property) then just setting up an electricity account if the supplier also supplies gas at the property might be logistically challenging.

You have interpreted incorrectly. If the gas is available to be used a DSC is payable regardless if any gas is used or not. Therefore the person who owns/rents the property is liable for the charge. 

A deemed tariff is set up for a customer who is the new owner/tenant who hasn’t contacted their supplier or agreed a contract. That doesn’t mean they don’t have to pay, they still do. 

If someone buys a house & never lives in it or uses the amenities, they still have to pay Council Tax, same principle. 

Some suppliers used to waive the DSC if no gas or electricity was used but that’s now stopped. 

Usually if the same supplier is used for both gas & electricity then it’s set up as a joint account anyway. 

QrizB

Mobtr said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Mobtr said:

Ectophile said:

There's an important rule in the Gas Act that you need to know.

You become a deemed customer of the current gas supplier the moment you "take a supply" of gas.  See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/schedule/2B section 8. "Where a gas supplier supplies gas to a consumer otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the consumer for the supply of gas as from the time".

If you never intend to use any gas at all, then while you are reading the meters after moving in, turn off the big valve next to the meter.  Make sure that you tell the gas supplier that you will not be using any gas.  Do not agree to any contract.

They then have no right to bill you standing charges, as you are not their customer.

This is not true. There will still be an account regardless of whether any gas is used or not. It will be on a deemed contract and standing charge will still apply. As the owner/occupier of the property you are liable for the cost. 

Please explain.  My understanding was that the customer was deemed to have an account when they used gas.  If they never use gas then what is the basis for deeming them to have an account?  Please refer to the relevant legislation in your explanation as my interpretation of the legislation I have read matches what I have written.

The issue might of course be that in this time of dual fuel tariffs (and hence a supplier supplying both at  property) then just setting up an electricity account if the supplier also supplies gas at the property might be logistically challenging.

You have interpreted incorrectly. If the gas is available to be used a DSC is payable regardless if any gas is used or not.

You seem quite certain of this. Do you have first-hand experience?

I only ask because it's been stated repeatedly on this forum, for a number of years, that if you don't commence using gas there is no deemed contract created. And while I can't provide links to threads, I've a feeling that suppliers have agreed with forumites when this situation has previously arisen.

Mobtr

QrizB said:

Mobtr said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Mobtr said:

Ectophile said:

There's an important rule in the Gas Act that you need to know.

You become a deemed customer of the current gas supplier the moment you "take a supply" of gas.  See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/44/schedule/2B section 8. "Where a gas supplier supplies gas to a consumer otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the consumer for the supply of gas as from the time".

If you never intend to use any gas at all, then while you are reading the meters after moving in, turn off the big valve next to the meter.  Make sure that you tell the gas supplier that you will not be using any gas.  Do not agree to any contract.

They then have no right to bill you standing charges, as you are not their customer.

This is not true. There will still be an account regardless of whether any gas is used or not. It will be on a deemed contract and standing charge will still apply. As the owner/occupier of the property you are liable for the cost. 

Please explain.  My understanding was that the customer was deemed to have an account when they used gas.  If they never use gas then what is the basis for deeming them to have an account?  Please refer to the relevant legislation in your explanation as my interpretation of the legislation I have read matches what I have written.

The issue might of course be that in this time of dual fuel tariffs (and hence a supplier supplying both at  property) then just setting up an electricity account if the supplier also supplies gas at the property might be logistically challenging.

You have interpreted incorrectly. If the gas is available to be used a DSC is payable regardless if any gas is used or not.

You seem quite certain of this. Do you have first-hand experience?

I only ask because it's been stated repeatedly on this forum, for a number of years, that if you don't commence using gas there is no deemed contract created. And while I can't provide links to threads, I've a feeling that suppliers have agreed with forumites when this situation has previously arisen.

I do, I worked as a CSA for one of the major supplies for several years & it never happened that if someone moved into a property, just because they never registered meant they weren’t responsible. There was always an account set up if the gas, or electricity, supply was available to be used. Maybe it was in the name of Owner/Occupier but when one account was closed for the outgoing occupier, it was an automatic process that another was opened. Like any other utility, someone is always responsible. 

Like I said, some suppliers waived the DSC if it was proved no supply was ever used but don’t think that happens now & there was still an account 

doodling

Hi,

But your experience doesn't seem founded in the legislation.  What is your understanding of the phrase "takes a supply" as used in para 8 of schedule 2B to the Gas Act 1985?

The use of the work "take" suggests an action is required by the occupier (e.g. that gas is consumed) rather than the mere existence of a gas supply - if your interpretation was intended then I would have expected the legislation to be phrased differently.

matt_drummer

doodling said:

Hi,

But your experience doesn't seem founded in the legislation.  What is your understanding of the phrase "takes a supply" as used in para 8 of schedule 2B to the Gas Act 1985?

The use of the work "take" suggests an action is required by the occupier (e.g. that gas is consumed) rather than the mere existence of a gas supply - if your interpretation was intended then I would have expected the legislation to be phrased differently.

My legal training as pert of my accountancy qualification leads me to the following conclusion.

To take a supply would be to assume ownership of a premises where gas is connected, supplied, and ready to be consumed.

Unless the gas is completely disconnected it is still supplied and the new owner or occupier takes the supply.

Whether the new owner or occupier actually consumes any gas does not mean they have not taken the supply.

The key word here is not take but supply, gas is supplied whether you consume any or not.

That is how I read and interpret the legislation.