eBay/PayPal rip-off and the Small Claims Court

bgreene81

Hi everyone, thanks for reading this. Any help greatly appreciated.

I bought two concert tickets from eBay via PayPal (debit card) for £320 back at the beginning of September. The concert was last week, and part of the deal at the time was that the tickets would not be sent out until about a week before the concert.

They never arrived, and I began getting worried a few days before the concert. I tried e-mailing and got no reply. I then found the person I bought from was no longer registered with eBay (they left about a month after I bought the tickets). I managed to get a phone number from eBay and left a few messages, but got no reply. The phone number has now suddenly stopped working.

Since the tickets were bought and paid for months ago, it is too late to file any kind of dispute. Is there anything else I can do to get my money back?

I am thinking specifically of the small claims court. How difficult is this process? I have what I believe to be the address of the seller, but how do I know that their account wasn't hacked by somebody else? Does this make a difference to my claim?

I am not so much worried about getting the full money back (although that is certainly a concern), but I am so furious with whoever has done this that I don't feel like they should be allowed to get away with it easily.

Can anybody suggest anything that is likely to make their lives difficult and hopefully recover my money?

Does anybody have any experience of this kind of thing and do you know what the scam is likely to have been? Has the account of a genuine seller been hijacked or is it just a straightforward con?

I should say that when I bought they had a score of over 100 at 100% positive as both a buyer and seller going back over the last 9 months.

I should also say that PayPal has a different name for them than eBay does. What is going on?

Any help appreciated.

Ben.

RFW

Unfortunately, it does look like a con. You need to report to the police and trading standards, trading standards should be able to give you some help too. To go through small claims you need to establish who took your money.

Have you also told Ebay and Paypal about this? Whilst you may be out of time for claims, if you pester them you may get somewhere.

I'd also report to Watchdog or one of the newspaper money helpers.

steviebabes

They should not have been selling anything they cannot deliver within 30 days. The con was the time factor, they would have cleared their paypal account long before anyone got suspicious. I think ebay have clamped down on this sort of con now. Good luck with your claim.

moschino

I sold a mobile phone on Ebay a few weeks ago. It was in as new condition, no scratches as I never keep it in the same pocket as keys/coins etc...

I charged the battery and cleared off all the photo's the day before I sent it Special Delivery as I know it worked fine.

The day the Buyer received the phone she opened a Paypal dispute stating the phone was faulty and did not turn on. I rejected the refund request. About 4 days of to and fro, me asking if the battery was in correctly etc... I eventually asked for the phone back advising that I need it back in the same condition as they received it so I could re-list it on Ebay.

Got the phone back, Serial number and IMIE number was correct, however I noticed that the 4 screws that hold the phone together had been tampered with. I dismantled the phone (I am an enectronics engineer) and found that the antenna connection was not connected to the main board and the ribbon connector that connects the screen to the main board had been ripped in two!

I contacted the Buyer via Paypal advising them of my findings and asked if they could shed any light on the matter. With that the Buyer esculated to Paypal for them to settle the claim.

I submitted photo's and documents advising Paypal that they can prove who is on the level by asking Vodafone to see if my IMIE number was active on their network on or after the 16th June which is when the Buyer received the phone.

The very next day Paypal settled the claim in favour of the Buyer leaving me £77 out of pocket and a faulty phone that I cannot re-sell.

According to Paypal the Buyer has to return the phone in the same condition as they received it otherwise Paypal will settle in favour of the Seller. This I have confirmed with Paypal as soon as the Buyer opened the dispute as I had the feeling she was trying it on!

I will shortly be approaching the police to see if they can use their contacts in Vodafone to check if the IMIE number was active when the phone was in the hands of the Buyer. Should not be an issue with the data protection act as the it is my phone and the Buyer states they have never used it as it did not work. I assume the Buyer swapped the case over with their faulty phone and sent it back to me for a refund.

Is it worth taking this to the small claims court? I was thinking of issuing against the Buyer and also Paypal.

I know it is a small amount of money but it is the principle that counts, why should Paypal be allowed to get away with it. Seems that the seller takes all the risks and foots all the fees, where the Buyer is protected fully.

Many thanks,
Jim.

cyril82

I would advise in this instance that you file a complaint with the financial ombudsman firstly on the basis that paypal acted unfairly in refunding the buyer at your expense forsaking your concerns and strong evidence of wrong doing on the part of the buyer, as with the small claims court there is no guarantees but unlike the small claims court this does not cost anything.

moschino

Thats something I didn't think about!

Many thanks.

kevinyork

Unfortuantely there are many, many stories on many websites criticising Paypal for exactly this type of action. It feels like monkeys press the buttons at Paypal and they are totally incapable of showing any flexibility or actually reading the information provided to them.

As far as Paypal, and a County Court are concerned, it is your word against the buyer's and Paypal will always err on the side of the buyer where there is doubt.

I think a County Court would need some expert evidence such as statements from independant experts and Vodaphone and in the long term even if you win you cannot guarantee getting your money back.

In the days of sellers being able to leave Negs at least people like you could warn others through feedback left. I would be as fuming as you but on balance I would probably have to swallow the loss I think.

Smart_But_Casual

I'd be tempted to exhaust the paypal complaints procedure and then take it to the financial ombudsmen regarding the phone as they are disregarding their own rules.

It will cost them around £500 as soon as a complaint is made.

You'll be able to pick up the jist of it here http://www.ukauctionhelp.co.uk/ppchargeback.php

moschino

Smart but Casual,

That link makes interesting reading - thanks for posting it.

The fact that Paypal have ignored my recent mails make me more willing to persue this further. I always play fair on Ebay, 100% positive feedback proves this, and as such I expect Ebay/Paypal to treat me with the same regard.

Thanks again!

techspec

moschino wrote: »

Smart but Casual,

That link makes interesting reading - thanks for posting it.

The fact that Paypal have ignored my recent mails make me more willing to persue this further. I always play fair on Ebay, 100% positive feedback proves this, and as such I expect Ebay/Paypal to treat me with the same regard.

Thanks again!

Try BBC's watchdog program too. Ebay seem to listen to them, as it was because of the program that seller feedback was banned.

Ebay realised this was a money maker, as sellers are no-longer able to block people with bad feedback, as even the worst buyers and con-men buying on Ebay now have 100% feedback. Thay cannot get a negative.

Ebay makes more money by allowing dodgey bids.

Ebays last two price increases were advertised as "Ebay listing fees fall". This 5p or so drop hid the fact that in the last year, Ebays Final Value Fees have increased by over 200% - and FVF's are a much bigger part of the process. Eg, sell an item for £100, and you will save 10p on listing. But the FVF is now £10 instead of under £3. I can't believe no-one as cottoned on to this.

Paypal are also ignoring me.

I sold an item for £25 two weeks ago, and without warning or complaint, paypal have taken the money back, saying the buyer filed a chargeback.

They now say thats the end of the matter, but its not for me.

I am sure Paypal have recently moved their head office out of the UK, so i am not sure if they fall under the FOS, although i will try there first.

But it does look like paypal are up to their old tricks again:-

www.paypalsucks.com

www.paypalwarning.com

soolin

techspec wrote: »

T

I sold an item for £25 two weeks ago, and without warning or complaint, paypal have taken the money back, saying the buyer filed a chargeback.

Just use the seller protection to deal with it then. As long as you complied with the rules you are covered.