How can I sue/take legal action against hotel for water leak which damaged my goods? Money Claim?

FrankFalcon

Thank you for your comments all.  I was talking to a friend at weekend who's brother owns a Computer Repair shop.  He said "Bring it to us and we will open it up and tell you the specs and provide you with a report for £30".

What would you say guys?

DullGreyGuy

Get him to put in the report what the secondhand value is at the same time if it were still working

jon81uk

lincroft1710 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

lincroft1710 said:

you effectively had no contract with the hotel. It probably doesn't work the same with hotels and guests, but if you had bought a (say) watch from a retailer and given it as a gift to a friend, then if the watch stopped working, the friend couldn't make a claim against the retailer, you would have to. 

This is one of those myths of the forum  

Under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 third parties can have rights to enforce terms of the contract, with some caveats.

The OP would presumably be named as the person staying in the room so it's a question of what, if any, third party rights were excluded as part of the terms of the booking contract. 

Okell said:

Any claim the OP has would be for negligence, wouldn't it?

I assume that would be the case but it would down to OP to show, at least on the balance of probability, and I doubt the receptionist muttering about it happening frequently isn't going to help unless they are willing to officially be part of the claim. 

Not an area I know a lot about but you often see signs in car parks about no liability for loss/damage, I would assume a hotel would include the same in their terms, except where they may not, such as negligence which goes back to the above about proof.

OP sorry if I missed it but I don't think you said if this was a chain or not? If it was a chain you'd probably be better off applying to the goodwill of head office with a polite letter in the post.  

As others mention the value may not be as high as you expect, £500-£1200 is a quite a big range for original purchase price, on the plus side from your point of view there may not be many of such a laptop around so prices on the likes of eBay may be higher than others anticipate but without know knowing the spec it's difficult for you to put a figure on the loss. 

I assume even without being able to turn it on there are ways to determine the spec if someone independently inspected the inside of the laptop but that's going to cost and I can't see you would have a claim for that cost as it isn't the hotels fault you don't know the specs   

If you actually read the 1999 Act it would appear that the 3rd party has to be named in the contract or at least it is intended they should be part of the contract. So it is not really a "myth of the forum" that 3rd parties are not part of a contract.

Wouldn't this all be covered by the hotel proprietors act 1956 anyway making the operators of a hotel liable for damage to guests belongs whilst at the establishment?

Luggage and belongings | VisitEngland (visitbritain.org)

lincroft1710

jon81uk said:

lincroft1710 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

lincroft1710 said:

you effectively had no contract with the hotel. It probably doesn't work the same with hotels and guests, but if you had bought a (say) watch from a retailer and given it as a gift to a friend, then if the watch stopped working, the friend couldn't make a claim against the retailer, you would have to. 

This is one of those myths of the forum  

Under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 third parties can have rights to enforce terms of the contract, with some caveats.

The OP would presumably be named as the person staying in the room so it's a question of what, if any, third party rights were excluded as part of the terms of the booking contract. 

Okell said:

Any claim the OP has would be for negligence, wouldn't it?

I assume that would be the case but it would down to OP to show, at least on the balance of probability, and I doubt the receptionist muttering about it happening frequently isn't going to help unless they are willing to officially be part of the claim. 

Not an area I know a lot about but you often see signs in car parks about no liability for loss/damage, I would assume a hotel would include the same in their terms, except where they may not, such as negligence which goes back to the above about proof.

OP sorry if I missed it but I don't think you said if this was a chain or not? If it was a chain you'd probably be better off applying to the goodwill of head office with a polite letter in the post.  

As others mention the value may not be as high as you expect, £500-£1200 is a quite a big range for original purchase price, on the plus side from your point of view there may not be many of such a laptop around so prices on the likes of eBay may be higher than others anticipate but without know knowing the spec it's difficult for you to put a figure on the loss. 

I assume even without being able to turn it on there are ways to determine the spec if someone independently inspected the inside of the laptop but that's going to cost and I can't see you would have a claim for that cost as it isn't the hotels fault you don't know the specs   

If you actually read the 1999 Act it would appear that the 3rd party has to be named in the contract or at least it is intended they should be part of the contract. So it is not really a "myth of the forum" that 3rd parties are not part of a contract.

Wouldn't this all be covered by the hotel proprietors act 1956 anyway making the operators of a hotel liable for damage to guests belongs whilst at the establishment?

Luggage and belongings | VisitEngland (visitbritain.org)

Would appear so. My reference to the 1999 Act was in relation to different circumstances and doesn't apply in the OP's case. 

tightauldgit

I think the biggest issue here would probably be that the hotel could probably make a decent case that the value of a second hand laptop that is more than 5 years old of unknown provenance is zero. 

DullGreyGuy

tightauldgit said:

I think the biggest issue here would probably be that the hotel could probably make a decent case that the value of a second hand laptop that is more than 5 years old of unknown provenance is zero. 

They would struggle to prove that when you can see on eBay that similar laptops are selling (not just being listed) for £60-90.

If the engineer can confirm more details like processor, ram, hd type/capacity then you can more accurately see what they sell for and may be higher than that range.

born_again

jon81uk said:

lincroft1710 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

lincroft1710 said:

you effectively had no contract with the hotel. It probably doesn't work the same with hotels and guests, but if you had bought a (say) watch from a retailer and given it as a gift to a friend, then if the watch stopped working, the friend couldn't make a claim against the retailer, you would have to. 

This is one of those myths of the forum  

Under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 third parties can have rights to enforce terms of the contract, with some caveats.

The OP would presumably be named as the person staying in the room so it's a question of what, if any, third party rights were excluded as part of the terms of the booking contract. 

Okell said:

Any claim the OP has would be for negligence, wouldn't it?

I assume that would be the case but it would down to OP to show, at least on the balance of probability, and I doubt the receptionist muttering about it happening frequently isn't going to help unless they are willing to officially be part of the claim. 

Not an area I know a lot about but you often see signs in car parks about no liability for loss/damage, I would assume a hotel would include the same in their terms, except where they may not, such as negligence which goes back to the above about proof.

OP sorry if I missed it but I don't think you said if this was a chain or not? If it was a chain you'd probably be better off applying to the goodwill of head office with a polite letter in the post.  

As others mention the value may not be as high as you expect, £500-£1200 is a quite a big range for original purchase price, on the plus side from your point of view there may not be many of such a laptop around so prices on the likes of eBay may be higher than others anticipate but without know knowing the spec it's difficult for you to put a figure on the loss. 

I assume even without being able to turn it on there are ways to determine the spec if someone independently inspected the inside of the laptop but that's going to cost and I can't see you would have a claim for that cost as it isn't the hotels fault you don't know the specs   

If you actually read the 1999 Act it would appear that the 3rd party has to be named in the contract or at least it is intended they should be part of the contract. So it is not really a "myth of the forum" that 3rd parties are not part of a contract.

Wouldn't this all be covered by the hotel proprietors act 1956 anyway making the operators of a hotel liable for damage to guests belongs whilst at the establishment?

Luggage and belongings | VisitEngland (visitbritain.org)

T
Hotel has not said they won't pay.

All they want is proof of what they are going to pay out for. Which is what the OP is struggling with.

tightauldgit

DullGreyGuy said:

tightauldgit said:

I think the biggest issue here would probably be that the hotel could probably make a decent case that the value of a second hand laptop that is more than 5 years old of unknown provenance is zero. 

They would struggle to prove that when you can see on eBay that similar laptops are selling (not just being listed) for £60-90.

If the engineer can confirm more details like processor, ram, hd type/capacity then you can more accurately see what they sell for and may be higher than that range.

They don't really have to 'prove' it though since they would merely be defending a claim. A 5+ year old laptop is beyond the end of it's expected life and pretty much worthless. It would be up to the claimant to prove otherwise. I don't know how much weight ebay sales of 'similar' laptops would weigh because we really don't know anything about the condition of the specific laptop in question. If you get an independent expert valuation of the specific laptop then yes that's probably more convincing to a judge - but is it worth the effort? 

I'm a bit surprised the hotel didn't offer £50 or £100 goodwill to make the thing go away but maybe the OP went in a bit heavy in overvaluing the laptop to begin with? 

DullGreyGuy

tightauldgit said:

DullGreyGuy said:

tightauldgit said:

I think the biggest issue here would probably be that the hotel could probably make a decent case that the value of a second hand laptop that is more than 5 years old of unknown provenance is zero. 

They would struggle to prove that when you can see on eBay that similar laptops are selling (not just being listed) for £60-90.

If the engineer can confirm more details like processor, ram, hd type/capacity then you can more accurately see what they sell for and may be higher than that range.

They don't really have to 'prove' it though since they would merely be defending a claim. A 5+ year old laptop is beyond the end of it's expected life and pretty much worthless. It would be up to the claimant to prove otherwise. I don't know how much weight ebay sales of 'similar' laptops would weigh because we really don't know anything about the condition of the specific laptop in question. If you get an independent expert valuation of the specific laptop then yes that's probably more convincing to a judge - but is it worth the effort? 

I'm a bit surprised the hotel didn't offer £50 or £100 goodwill to make the thing go away but maybe the OP went in a bit heavy in overvaluing the laptop to begin with? 

Civil law is judged on the balance of probability, the fact that the OP would be able to show that a working laptops from a range of brands being of the same age and older routinely sells on eBay would, in my opinion, show that the asset had some value and so it would be up to the hotel to prove that a working laptop has no value at all. Hell I even sold a non-working 12 year old computer for a similar value.

I agree its a separate question on how much time its worth fighting for £60, but we've seen people issue court proceedings for less on here, and also surprised that the hotel hasn't already offered FO money but then the OP seemed to initially believe they were entitled to a much higher valuation. 

Money_Grabber13579

tightauldgit said:

DullGreyGuy said:

tightauldgit said:

I think the biggest issue here would probably be that the hotel could probably make a decent case that the value of a second hand laptop that is more than 5 years old of unknown provenance is zero. 

They would struggle to prove that when you can see on eBay that similar laptops are selling (not just being listed) for £60-90.

If the engineer can confirm more details like processor, ram, hd type/capacity then you can more accurately see what they sell for and may be higher than that range.

They don't really have to 'prove' it though since they would merely be defending a claim. A 5+ year old laptop is beyond the end of it's expected life and pretty much worthless. It would be up to the claimant to prove otherwise. I don't know how much weight ebay sales of 'similar' laptops would weigh because we really don't know anything about the condition of the specific laptop in question. If you get an independent expert valuation of the specific laptop then yes that's probably more convincing to a judge - but is it worth the effort? 

I'm a bit surprised the hotel didn't offer £50 or £100 goodwill to make the thing go away but maybe the OP went in a bit heavy in overvaluing the laptop to begin with? 

Is a laptop really only expected to last 5 years, before it ceases to serve any useful purpose whatsoever? I still occasionally use the first laptop I bought and it is now 17 years old and running windows 10. The laptop I use daily is around 10 years old and still working reasonably well. Maybe I’ve been lucky but I’d be surprised if a 5 year old laptop had absolutely no value, although depends on the spec when originally purchased I guess.