Neighbour Dispute

maruuchan

Hello,

I've got a bit odd one I think but we recently purchased a property that had a fence already in the back garden (erected and paid by previous owners of our property)
We decided to replace it for privacy reasons (it was about 1m tall), however our neighbours disputed it as they don't want a fence.

We had all documents reviewed by solicitor and sent them a letter saying we are legally allowed to replace the fence without their agreement.

We did replace the fence while they were away but they still trespassed our property and are saying they'll make the fence be removed. They ignored the letter.

From a legal point of view:
- Can they request us remove it?
- If they dispute that it is on the boundary (they never said that before) - would they have to prove and pay for all the cost? Or even if it is on the boundary, we were allowed to replace it as we legally owned the old fence?

I have all documents checked by 2 solicitors but I wonder if there is anything now that they could legally try.

They also keep trespassing our front garden and using about a meter of it for their own plants. I removed them but they put it back - what could I legally do about this?
Council seems not to care and police says that trespassing is civil dispute. I don't want to pay for another solicitor letter since they just ignore them. 

user1977

On what grounds do they think they're entitled to have the fence removed? Why do you not trust the advice from your (two?) solicitors?

maruuchan

Well they just think they can do whatever they want.

I guess I’m just worried as they are actually capable of anything. They had before told me that I must ask them if I want to plant anything in my own garden and the fact that they actually believe it as a fact is a bit concerning so just want to make sure I haven’t missed anything.
 

We didn’t have the boundary survey done so I’m worried they may say it is on the boundary? However we owned the previous fence so from what’ve read that means we could just replace it without any permissions? 

user1977

And you haven't asked them why they think you need to ask them to plant anything etc?

maruuchan

I have. As mentioned, they think they own all grounds around including what’s mine. 

BlueVeranda

I think you've just found out why the previous owners moved.

Unless, they actually got on really well with the previous owners, and got used to doing gardening for them and truly felt like the two back gardens were one big space. But you'd think they would have realised when the house was sold that the new owners might not feel the same way about it.

user1977

maruuchan said:

I have. As mentioned, they think they own all grounds around including what’s mine. 

They actually think you're trespassing on their land? Surely they'd be evicting you properly then, not just requiring you to seek their permission about what you're planting etc?

Ask them to show you their title deeds demonstrating that they own your garden...

Richard1212

1. Don't send solicitors' letters if you cannot back up the consequences of people who ignore such letters----you have to go to court if such letters are ignored. Solicitors letters are generally thought to be an easy and cheap way to achieve legal goals ---but anybody knows that they can just ignore such letters because the clients will not be pursuing via the courts-----as seems to be your stance. 
2. Why question your rights when you have had the advice of two solicitors?
3. How can your neighbours trespass into your back garden if you have a put up a new fence ( which incidentally cannot be more than 2 m without planning permission) ? If you have "gaps" or corners not fenced, then make sure ALL access to your back garden ( short of neighbours climbing the fence) is secure, with no chance of any access.
4. When you bought the house, your solicitor asks questions of the outgoing owners as to whether there are any disputes , current or previous, with neighbours-----what did your conveyancing solicitor tell you ? If previous owners lied about any dispute , you can claim "misrepresentation compensation". Ask your conveyancer to go back and find out.
5. Make sure your fence is on the boundary line or a few inches back onto your property so there is no boundary dispute on the horizon. Did you have a survey before buying?
6. Front garden is a more tricky issue but you are allowed to erect a fence, without planning permission, so long as not over 1 m. A same height hedge, already established when planted, is another option. You could also think of ways of making it difficult for the neighbours to plant anything near the boundary by carrying out "works " which are pleasing to you, such as a metre or two of those patterned bricks that are so popular in driveways these days----or a similar width of attractive white pebbles or similar feature. At least by doing something by way of a "dividing line" along the front garden boundary, you will have even better proof if there is trespass just by virtue of the distance involved.
7. Try and keep a camera handy to take shots of any trespass, at back or front----there must surely be times when you actually witness trespass because it takes a bit of time to pull up someone's flowers and plant others. The evidence would be invaluable in the event of the final resort which is number 8 below.
8. Take your neighbours to court on all counts ( civil suit is recommended). If you prefer existing  the police and courts take "harassment" very seriously so you could pursue the issues under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997. For either a civil suit or action under the legislation, you will need as much evidence as possible ( list every event and date in  a notebook so it builds up to a damning indictment over several months----including everything that has already happened with approx dates, the further back in time the better. And the photographic evidence, whether actual events occurring or evidence of trespass (eg the flowers you've planted in your front garden and then their absence and pictures of what neighbours have replaced them with----keep dates). With all this evidence you can stop what must be a torment for you. But you must be prepared to get solicitor to take it all to court----it is an easy thing to do with a solicitor armed with as much evidence as possible ( and an "open-and-shut" case is very likely to get your legal fees paid for by the trespassing neighbours.

I hope the above gives you some food for thought and some options for action. Once upon a time I had a neighbour who trespassed in order to steal from my orchard and also from my vegetable garden which were half an acre from my house , but I took detailed notes and photos , and, after solicitors' letters ignored, I went to court and the culprit was fined for petty theft and my legal costs were paid in full. 

maruuchan

Richard1212 said:

1. Don't send solicitors' letters if you cannot back up the consequences of people who ignore such letters----you have to go to court if such letters are ignored. Solicitors letters are generally thought to be an easy and cheap way to achieve legal goals ---but anybody knows that they can just ignore such letters because the clients will not be pursuing via the courts-----as seems to be your stance. 

2. Why question your rights when you have had the advice of two solicitors?

3. How can your neighbours trespass into your back garden if you have a put up a new fence ( which incidentally cannot be more than 2 m without planning permission) ? If you have "gaps" or corners not fenced, then make sure ALL access to your back garden ( short of neighbours climbing the fence) is secure, with no chance of any access.

4. When you bought the house, your solicitor asks questions of the outgoing owners as to whether there are any disputes , current or previous, with neighbours-----what did your conveyancing solicitor tell you ? If previous owners lied about any dispute , you can claim "misrepresentation compensation". Ask your conveyancer to go back and find out.

5. Make sure your fence is on the boundary line or a few inches back onto your property so there is no boundary dispute on the horizon. Did you have a survey before buying?

6. Front garden is a more tricky issue but you are allowed to erect a fence, without planning permission, so long as not over 1 m. A same height hedge, already established when planted, is another option. You could also think of ways of making it difficult for the neighbours to plant anything near the boundary by carrying out "works " which are pleasing to you, such as a metre or two of those patterned bricks that are so popular in driveways these days----or a similar width of attractive white pebbles or similar feature. At least by doing something by way of a "dividing line" along the front garden boundary, you will have even better proof if there is trespass just by virtue of the distance involved.
7. Try and keep a camera handy to take shots of any trespass, at back or front----there must surely be times when you actually witness trespass because it takes a bit of time to pull up someone's flowers and plant others. The evidence would be invaluable in the event of the final resort which is number 8 below.

8. Take your neighbours to court on all counts ( civil suit is recommended). If you prefer existing  the police and courts take "harassment" very seriously so you could pursue the issues under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997. For either a civil suit or action under the legislation, you will need as much evidence as possible ( list every event and date in  a notebook so it builds up to a damning indictment over several months----including everything that has already happened with approx dates, the further back in time the better. And the photographic evidence, whether actual events occurring or evidence of trespass (eg the flowers you've planted in your front garden and then their absence and pictures of what neighbours have replaced them with----keep dates). With all this evidence you can stop what must be a torment for you. But you must be prepared to get solicitor to take it all to court----it is an easy thing to do with a solicitor armed with as much evidence as possible ( and an "open-and-shut" case is very likely to get your legal fees paid for by the trespassing neighbours.

 

I hope the above gives you some food for thought and some options for action. Once upon a time I had a neighbour who trespassed in order to steal from my orchard and also from my vegetable garden which were half an acre from my house , but I took detailed notes and photos , and, after solicitors' letters ignored, I went to court and the culprit was fined for petty theft and my legal costs were paid in full. 

1. I'm prepared to go to the court if I need to but from what I've read I'd really need lots of evidence and mediation beforehand. I've got pictures, diary, recording from Ring camera though.
2. I guess my worry is cause we haven't done the boundary, however the old fence (paid by previous owners) was erected in agreement with the neighbours so I think they wouldn't allow that time to be on their property. So it is either within our boundary or on the boundary - with the second one, if we owned the fence - I think it still means we could replace it? 
3.They opened the gate and just came in. We haven't got a key (just a latch that can be done from inside) and we didn't have it closed.
4.The person who lived there died. Our solicitor however wasn't great and missed a few other things. I think as it was sold by daughter in law we probably wouldn't be able to prove anything. Although, I spoke to the company that erected the old fence and was advised that the neighbours were horrible and bullied the old lady.
5.As mentioned, we didn't, this is what potentially worries me. Would they have to prove it's in a wrong place?
7.We got ring camera, catching just below the fence. They queried that as well. We got it on camera that they came into our back garden (fenced off with a gate)
8.
We have evidence starting on 22.07.23 with all dates, pictures etc. 10 incidents in total (2 damages to old fence, once coming to our garden and cutting our hedge, once coming to our garden through gate and saying they'll take the fence down).  We got pictures on various dates that they park on the drive (when they only have right to access) and have half of the drive blocked by pots and plants that we asked them to remove. 

Soot2006

We have evidence starting on 22.07.23 with all dates, pictures etc. 10 incidents in total (2 damages to old fence, once coming to our garden and cutting our hedge, once coming to our garden through gate and saying they'll take the fence down).  We got pictures on various dates that they park on the drive (when they only have right to access) and have half of the drive blocked by pots and plants that we asked them to remove. 

THEY FLY TIPPED THEIR POTS ON YOUR LAND ON YOUR LAND???

Community Facebook group: Hello neighbourhood, please can someone recommend a licensed waste removal company to remove items fly tipped on my drive ...

It sounds like you've been generous in attitude with these neighbours and it's probably time to put down your foot. Firstly, prevent the preventable, even if it's annoying try to lock your gate, put your own waste for collection on your drive on top of their stuff (not blocking their access as they appear to have row over your drive) - get everything removed at the same time. Plant prickly things in any gaps, borrow a large dog to bark at them any time they look your way ....

Obviously, at the same time, continue the reasonable "let's be neighbours" route. All these passive aggressive acts are just incidental. Or maybe I'm just in a really bad morning this morning ...

nicmyles

This is not helpful, I realise, but it was a very pleasing moment for me when I moved into my new house and discovered through conversations with neighbours and other people on the street that the troublesome neighbour on the street was in fact the previous occupant of my house. So a) no problems with neighbours and b) everyone hugely grateful we are no trouble.